Stupid Newbie Pattern Question

On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:33:55 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
One of my local untowered airports has an ILS, so on a busy day with 5
people in the pattern, there is always one bozo doing straight ins (and
making radio calls that the guys in the pattern don't understand) and
disrupting everybody else.
I thought so. The problem here is the guys in the pattern do not understand
that the "bozos" on final have the right-of-way.

5 miles out on an ILS is not "on final". Final is a part of the pattern,
and unless you fly 5 mile patterns, that's not part of it.

Hmmmm... I'm wondering then when cleared for departure at LAN they
said: " Eight thrity three romeo, please expidite as there is a DC-9
on five mile final." :-)) That was their words.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Advisory Circular 90-42F "Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without
Operating Control Towers" provides examples of self-announce phraseologies
for various situations. It provides the following for practice instrument
approaches:

"STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC (NAME-FINAL APPROACH
FIX) INBOUND DESCENDING THROUGH (ALTITUDE) PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH RUNWAY
THREE FIVE STRAWN"

With apologies to the FAA, this is a perfect example of what NOT to say at a
non-towered, uncontrolled airfield.

Example: We have a VOR 36 approach into Iowa City. The VOR is located ~9
miles south of the field, and often-times you will hear "Cessna 123-Tango is
inbound from the VOR at 2500 feet on the VOR 36 approach, low approach
only..."

Primary students, transient pilots, and many VFR pilots have NO idea where
that puts our friend in 123-Tango. He may as well not have announced at
all.

More properly (and what I say when I'm practicing that approach) is "Iowa
City Traffic, Piper N56993 is nine miles south of the field, over the VOR,
inbound for landing on a practice VOR 36 approach..." with subsequent
position reports when I'm 5 miles out and again entering the pattern. (Space
permitting on the freq.)

This helps everyone concerned.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mon, 30 May 2005 01:04:54 GMT, in rec.aviation.piloting you wrote:

More properly (and what I say when I'm practicing that approach) is "Iowa
City Traffic, Piper N56993 is nine miles south of the field, over the VOR,
inbound for landing on a practice VOR 36 approach..." with subsequent
position reports when I'm 5 miles out and again entering the pattern. (Space
permitting on the freq.)

Jay,

Your VOR is considerably further then my VOR in MBO. As I posted to
another person, there are no landmarks between the VOR and my airport MBO.
The VOR is 5 miles from the airport.

By the time I cross the only major landmark (Interstate 55), I have already
made my call for the pattern entry, whether it be a 45 or crossing mid
field from the VOR.

So, needless to say, each airport will vary greatly.

Allen

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:WEtme.19232$IC6.15139@attbi_s72...

With apologies to the FAA, this is a perfect example of what NOT to say at
a non-towered, uncontrolled airfield.

Example: We have a VOR 36 approach into Iowa City. The VOR is located ~9
miles south of the field, and often-times you will hear "Cessna 123-Tango
is inbound from the VOR at 2500 feet on the VOR 36 approach, low approach
only..."

Primary students, transient pilots, and many VFR pilots have NO idea where
that puts our friend in 123-Tango. He may as well not have announced at
all.


Well, Jay, based just on your description, without looking at any charts of
the area, I'd say that announcement puts our friend in Cessna 123T something
less than nine miles south of the field at 2500 MSL heading directly for the
runway 36 threshold. Why do you believe others can't draw that same
conclusion?

Personally, I prefer to hear reports over a known fix or landmark or a DME
distance. That way I know it's an accurate report and not a
semi-wild-ass-guess. I think you'd be surprised how inaccurate some reports
are.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T10E3223B



More properly (and what I say when I'm practicing that approach) is "Iowa
City Traffic, Piper N56993 is nine miles south of the field, over the VOR,
inbound for landing on a practice VOR 36 approach..." with subsequent
position reports when I'm 5 miles out and again entering the pattern.
(Space permitting on the freq.)

This helps everyone concerned.


I think you're talkin' too much. There's no need to say you're over the VOR
and also say that you're nine miles south of the field. The VOR's on the
charts, transient pilots will know where it is and local pilots are familiar
with it.

Which tells non-IFR pilots almost nothing.

mike

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news:H8ome.9858


"STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC (NAME-FINAL APPROACH
FIX) INBOUND DESCENDING THROUGH (ALTITUDE) PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH RUNWAY
THREE FIVE STRAWN"

"mike regish" wrote in message
...

Which tells non-IFR pilots almost nothing.


That depends what the FAF is. If it's a VOR it tells them exactly where the
aircraft is.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"mike regish" wrote in message
...

Which tells non-IFR pilots almost nothing.

That depends what the FAF is. If it's a VOR it tells them exactly where the
aircraft is.

No it doesn't, because VFR pilots are unlikely to know the FAF is at the VOR.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Per the FAR's there is no requirement to fly a traffic pattern.

Per the AIM, there are recommendations for HOW to fly one if a pattern
is flown. You can enter and depart on any leg of a pattern if you choose
to fly it.

Dave

It is best to approach and overfly the airport at 500 feet above the
pattern altitude. This will allow you to observe the winds to select a
runway and watch for NORDO aircraft in the pattern or on the runway.

Lakeview Bill wrote:
When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

On Sat, 28 May 2005 13:52:58 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
wrote:

When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

If these are permissible, under what circumstances?

Thanks...
Consistency is nice, but don't expect it of other people.

Also, some non-towered airports actually publish a mid-field crosswind
entry on their recommended noise-abatement charts. Halfmoon Bay (KHAF)
is one I know of.

Don