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"Jim" wrote in message
news However, to log PIC time you also must be qualified to act as PIC of that particular aircraft. It is not required that you be qualified to be PIC of a particular aircraft, only the category and class of the aircraft. As an example, if you don't have a high performance endorsement, you will be hard pressed to find an FBO to rent you a C182. However, you could still be a safety pilot in that plane (and log PIC for the time actually spent as safety pilot) if you have a PP-ASEL certificate. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer __________ |
#3
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"FryGuy" wrote in message
1 1) I am a private pilot ASEL. I'm pretty sure that it is not a problem with me being his safety pilot but he told me I can log the time PIC. Is this correct? Yes, you may log the time actually spent as a safety pilot as PIC. 2) What are the requirements for complex and high performance aircraft? Separate endorsements are needed for high performance and complex airplanes. 14 CFR 61.31 (e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller; or, in the case of a seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch propeller)... (f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an engine of more than 200 horsepower)... 3) Can I log time as the safety pilot in this plane if I haven't yet gotten the endorsment for complex/HP? 91.109.b.2 says the safety pilot just needs to be a private pilot with the appropriate category and class ratings. You've answered your own question. The safety pilot needs to be rated in the category and class of the aircraft. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer __________ |
#4
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"John T" wrote in message
ws.com 3) Can I log time as the safety pilot in this plane if I haven't yet gotten the endorsment for complex/HP? 91.109.b.2 says the safety pilot just needs to be a private pilot with the appropriate category and class ratings. You've answered your own question. The safety pilot needs to be rated in the category and class of the aircraft. Actually, now that I re-read the FAR sections I quoted (61.31), I think Jose may be right. This sounds like a good question to fire off to the local FSDO and/or AOPA. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer __________ |
#5
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FryGuy wrote:
I have a couple of questions that are unclear to me regarding being a safety pilot and operating high performance and/or complex aircraft. I've tried looking these up in the 2003 FAR but I wasn't able to find a good answer to my questions. If you could give me the reference in the FAR if there is one I would appreciate it. Here they a 1) I have a friend who needs to go practice some IFR approaches to stay current. I am a private pilot ASEL. I'm pretty sure that it is not a problem with me being his safety pilot but he told me I can log the time PIC. Is this correct? Cannot log PIC but can log Second in command. 2) What are the requirements for complex and high performance aircraft? I thought that an endorsement was required for planes with retractable gear and a adjustable prop and another for planes with a greater than 200 horsepower engine. In my log book I see an endorsement line for the HP (there isn't a FAR reference though) but not for the complex. I looked up "complex" in the FAR and could not find anything regarding this. Depends on the owner's insurance company's requirements for that particular aircraft. 3) Ok, now the combination of the two. Lets say I do need an endorsment for the complex/HP aircraft. Can I log time as the safety pilot in this plane if I haven't yet gotten the endorsment for complex/HP? 91.109.b.2 says the safety pilot just needs to be a private pilot with the appropriate category and class ratings. Airplane, single engine land. What does your certificate say? Does it say high-performance or complex? |
#6
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I "think" John Lynch's take on the question is that you must have the
appropriate endorsements to log PIC when acting as safety pilot. If the safety pilot does not act as the legal PIC he/she does not need the proper endorsements, however they may not log the safety pilot time as PIC. New question: Is there ever a case when you can log PIC time when you aren't both properly rated and endorsed? QUESTION: According to § 91.109(b), a safety pilot must possess at least a private certificate with appropriate category & class ratings. Is it necessary for that safety pilot to be "current" in the aircraft (landings, etc.)? Requirements of 61.55 specifically exempt safety pilots [§ 61.55(d)(4)], but where are the safety pilot criteria actually spelled out. Section 61.57 refers to pilot-in-command requirements, but a safety pilot is not PIC, only a required crew member. Further, has there ever been an interpretation that the safety pilot must be Instrument Rated for that type of VFR operation? ANSWER: Ref. § 61.31(d)(1); § 61.51(e)(1)(iii), § 61.51(f)(2), § 61.3(c); § 61.56(c), § 61.57(c); A safety pilot is a "required crewmember" and must hold at least a valid private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown per § 91.109(b) and a valid medical certificate per § 61.3(c). A valid pilot certificate is one which has not been revoked or under suspension. That person who is serving as a safety pilot may choose to act as the legal pilot-in-command (per 14 CFR part 1) and log the time as PIC [per § 61.51(e)(1)(iii)], or otherwise log the time as SIC time [per § 61.51(f)(2)], but is not even required to log the time at all. However, the safety pilot's name must be logged by the person practicing instrument flight [per § 61.51(g)(3)(ii)]. If the safety pilot is going to act as the legal PIC for the flight that person must ". . . Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class rating and type rating are required) for the aircraft to be flown;" [per § 61.31(d)(1)]. ). And if the flight is conducted in a high performance, complex, tail wheel, etc. aircraft and the safety pilot is acting as the legal PIC that pilot must have the appropriate endorsements that are required by § 61.31(e), (f) and/or (i), as appropriate. This could be a reason why a safety pilot might only be able to serve as an SIC and log it as SIC time. And assuming the operation is a simulated instrument flight (as in the case the flight is performed in VMC conditions under VFR), the safety pilot would not need to hold an instrument rating. If any portion of the flight were conducted on an IFR flight plan (e.g., in and out of the clouds and/or even on an IFR flight plan) at least one of the pilots must have an instrument rating and the § 1.1 PIC must be instrument current in accordance with § 61.57(c) and be Flight Review current in accordance with § 61.56(c). "John T" wrote in message ws.com... "Jim" wrote in message news However, to log PIC time you also must be qualified to act as PIC of that particular aircraft. It is not required that you be qualified to be PIC of a particular aircraft, only the category and class of the aircraft. As an example, if you don't have a high performance endorsement, you will be hard pressed to find an FBO to rent you a C182. However, you could still be a safety pilot in that plane (and log PIC for the time actually spent as safety pilot) if you have a PP-ASEL certificate. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer __________ |
#7
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#8
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"FryGuy" wrote in message
1 1) I'm pretty sure that it is not a problem with me being his safety pilot but he told me I can log the time PIC. Is this correct? 3) Ok, now the combination of the two. Lets say I do need an endorsment for the complex/HP aircraft. Can I log time as the safety pilot in this plane if I haven't yet gotten the endorsment for complex/HP? According to AOPA: quote We have a letter of interpretation from the FAA on this topic. According to the letter, a safety pilot who does not have a complex or high-performance endorsement can act as such, assuming they are appropriately rated in the aircraft (ASEL, etc). However, because they do not have the appropriate endorsement, they cannot act as PIC. This means the safety pilot would have to log SIC for the flight. /quote -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer __________ |
#9
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"Jim" wrote in message
I "think" John Lynch's take on the question is that you must have the appropriate endorsements to log PIC when acting as safety pilot. If the safety pilot does not act as the legal PIC he/she does not need the proper endorsements, however they may not log the safety pilot time as PIC. Yeah, I already posted a retraction on my first answer. SIC would be allowed under these circumstances, though. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer __________ |
#10
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"john smith" wrote in message
Airplane, single engine land. What does your certificate say? Does it say high-performance or complex? Would the certificate ever say "high-performance" or "complex"? Or would that be just the logbook? -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer __________ |
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