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#1
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Brad Z wrote:
A few that come to mind... Another reason has to do with homebuilts. I have a COZY MKIV, set up for a left side PIC. Two weeks ago, I checked out a builder who has just finished his aircraft, will be flying from the left seat, and wanted some experience before doing his first flight. I checked myself out in the right seat a few days before, and then gave him 1.5 hours in the plane in the left seat, along with 6 TO/landings. While the main instruments and pitch trim switches are on the left, flying the COZY from the right seat is pretty much a non-event. -- Marc J. Zeitlin http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/ http://www.cozybuilders.org/ Copyright (c) 2004 |
#2
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"Brad Z" wrote in message news:ZMUkc.7446$_41.391899@attbi_s02...
"running with scissors" wrote in message om... As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? A few that come to mind... 1) For aerial photography flights in aircraft with only left opening windows 2) Returning to base with an inop PTT button on the left yoke 3) attaching a yoke mounted GPS so that it doesn't block the instruments directly in front of you on the panel 4) Demo-ing an aircraft to a potential buyer (who may not even be rated yet) the poster stated it was in providing a sightseeing service and placing a non flying passenger in the right seat. |
#3
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"Brad Z" writes:
"running with scissors" wrote As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? A few that come to mind... 1) For aerial photography flights in aircraft with only left opening windows 2) Returning to base with an inop PTT button on the left yoke 3) attaching a yoke mounted GPS so that it doesn't block the instruments directly in front of you on the panel 4) Demo-ing an aircraft to a potential buyer (who may not even be rated yet) Or as happened when on a pleasure flight with my cousin -- he'd spent years as a military instructor pilot and was at the time an airline second officer and things didn't "feel right" from the left seat. |
#4
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running with scissors wrote:
As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? There are regulations pertaining to this, and if you are indeed doing your instructors rating you should have gained a reasonable knowledge of the FAR's and furthermore have an understaning of CRM. as we are all aware, many GA aircraft are equipped with "dual" controls and instumentation, however, depending on the aircraft the left seat is configured as the primary control station, with reduced/limited access from the right seat, limited further if a body is in that seat, limited even further if it is occupied by a non pilot. so again, what purpose would it serve to position a non pilot in the left seat and place yourself in the right seat, why would you want to limit access to full control of the aircraft. you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith. You make it sound like some incredibly dangerous activity, but CFI's fly from the right seat all the time and are expected to be able to take over from that seat even if the student has gotten the plane into a spin or is in an unusual attitude in IMC. Why the terror about flying from the right? Reasons you might want to sit on the right include allowing the passenger to practice flying (not loggable toward a rating if you're not a CFI, but that may not be important to you or the passenger), and to practice for your CFI exam. If you don't feel competent to fly from the right or feel like there are important instruments or controls that you don't have access to, then you shouldn't do it. But viewing it as a "loophole" or "unprofessional" seems really over the top. -- David Rind |
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"David Rind" wrote in message ... running with scissors wrote: As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? There are regulations pertaining to this, and if you are indeed doing your instructors rating you should have gained a reasonable knowledge of the FAR's and furthermore have an understaning of CRM. as we are all aware, many GA aircraft are equipped with "dual" controls and instumentation, however, depending on the aircraft the left seat is configured as the primary control station, with reduced/limited access from the right seat, limited further if a body is in that seat, limited even further if it is occupied by a non pilot. so again, what purpose would it serve to position a non pilot in the left seat and place yourself in the right seat, why would you want to limit access to full control of the aircraft. you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith. You make it sound like some incredibly dangerous activity, but CFI's fly from the right seat all the time and are expected to be able to take over from that seat even if the student has gotten the plane into a spin or is in an unusual attitude in IMC. Why the terror about flying from the right? Reasons you might want to sit on the right include allowing the passenger to practice flying (not loggable toward a rating if you're not a CFI, but that may not be important to you or the passenger), and to practice for your CFI exam. If you don't feel competent to fly from the right or feel like there are important instruments or controls that you don't have access to, then you shouldn't do it. But viewing it as a "loophole" or "unprofessional" seems really over the top. -- David Rind I had to land our club's 172 from the right seat once, when my newly licensed pilot friend couldn't quite get a crosswind landing down. I think I was lucky. I was pretty familiar with the plane, but had never flown from the right seat before. We now have a Cherokee 180 and I think I'd like to get some right seat time for various reasons (the one above, to introduce a friend to flying, or any number of emergency reasons). I think it would just take some safe practice with a pilot in the left seat in case things just weren't working right. |
#6
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David Rind wrote in message ...
running with scissors wrote: As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? There are regulations pertaining to this, and if you are indeed doing your instructors rating you should have gained a reasonable knowledge of the FAR's and furthermore have an understaning of CRM. as we are all aware, many GA aircraft are equipped with "dual" controls and instumentation, however, depending on the aircraft the left seat is configured as the primary control station, with reduced/limited access from the right seat, limited further if a body is in that seat, limited even further if it is occupied by a non pilot. so again, what purpose would it serve to position a non pilot in the left seat and place yourself in the right seat, why would you want to limit access to full control of the aircraft. you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith. You make it sound like some incredibly dangerous activity, but CFI's fly from the right seat all the time and are expected to be able to take over from that seat even if the student has gotten the plane into a spin or is in an unusual attitude in IMC. Why the terror about flying from the right? Reasons you might want to sit on the right include allowing the passenger to practice flying (not loggable toward a rating if you're not a CFI, but that may not be important to you or the passenger), and to practice for your CFI exam. If you don't feel competent to fly from the right or feel like there are important instruments or controls that you don't have access to, then you shouldn't do it. But viewing it as a "loophole" or "unprofessional" seems really over the top. umm read it again there is no statement of "terror" at all. the question i asked is what is the reason for placing a passenger in the left seat. any CFI who placed a student with zero experience or no ability in aircraft in a position of spin recovery or unusual attitude in IMC would hardly be considered responsible. the poster stated that it was a sightseeing trip and no mention of instruction was made. besides, he also stated that he was not an instructor. corrct if a pilot does not feel comfortable in flying from the right or has limited access from the right he shouldnt do it. which is what i stated. many GA aircraft have the brakes located on the left only, or instrumentation advantages from the left, or even fuel selectors on the left wall. the question i asked was what would be the benefit and why would a pilot be willing to fly an aircraft with a non flying passenger in the left seat and potentially limit access to aircraft controls. unless there is justifiable reasoning (and depending on the aircraft type and equipment specification) it would be unprofessional to do so. |
#7
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running with scissors wrote:
From: Anthony Acri ) Subject: Right Seat Flying Date: 2001-12-11 03:21:43 PST Does anybody know if there is any regulations about flying from the right seat? Would like to flyi from the right seat while taking some people up for sightseeing. Have been flying from the right when I have been doing my instructors courses. Thanks As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? You might be helping a student pilot work on some procedures in between their lessons. I went back and re-read Amy's article and she did say student pilot, however, I don't see why it matters whether the left seat occupant is a student pilot or a non-pilot. I've never come across an FAR that says I can't fly from the right seat, no matter who is in the left seat or whether it is empty. Matt |
#8
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Matt Whiting wrote in message ...
running with scissors wrote: From: Anthony Acri ) Subject: Right Seat Flying Date: 2001-12-11 03:21:43 PST Does anybody know if there is any regulations about flying from the right seat? Would like to flyi from the right seat while taking some people up for sightseeing. Have been flying from the right when I have been doing my instructors courses. Thanks As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? You might be helping a student pilot work on some procedures in between their lessons. I went back and re-read Amy's article and she did say student pilot, however, I don't see why it matters whether the left seat occupant is a student pilot or a non-pilot. I've never come across an FAR that says I can't fly from the right seat, no matter who is in the left seat or whether it is empty. Matt matt there was no mention of instruction. the poster stated it was for a sightseeing flight and he was not a rated instructor. |
#9
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Matt Whiting wrote:
running with scissors wrote: From: Anthony Acri ) Subject: Right Seat Flying Date: 2001-12-11 03:21:43 PST Does anybody know if there is any regulations about flying from the right seat? Would like to flyi from the right seat while taking some people up for sightseeing. Have been flying from the right when I have been doing my instructors courses. Thanks As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left seat? what purpose would it serve ? You might be helping a student pilot work on some procedures in between their lessons. I went back and re-read Amy's article and she did say student pilot, however, I don't see why it matters whether the left seat occupant is a student pilot or a non-pilot. I've never come across an FAR that says I can't fly from the right seat, no matter who is in the left seat or whether it is empty. I heard back from Amy. As I stated above, she was referring specifically to a student pilot and apparently the "sole manipulator" rule prohibits a non-instructor pilot from allowing a student pilot to manipulate the controls as this would constitute the student pilot carrying a passenger. However, I don't see why this would matter which seat you were sitting in. If this is illegal, seems it would be as illegal to have the student in the right seat. It also seems odd that you can let a non-student handle the controls and be legal, but can't let a student pilot legally fly when you are in the airplane. I would have posted Amy's email here, but she didn't respond to my request for permission to do so and I don't consider it good etiquette to post an email sent to me without the author's OK. Matt |
#10
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