The truth about Flarm Stealth and Competition definition...

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 12:06:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 11:32:13 AM UTC-8, Andy Blackburn wrote:


I believe this is the current spec for PRIV (Stealth Mode) - see p 13.

http://flarm.com/wp-content/uploads/...ation-1.02.pdf

In short, stealth suppresses all traffic information outside of a cylinder +/- 984 feet in altitude and a radius of 1.24 statue miles. Within that airspace volume it also suppresses all Flarm ID, climb rate, track and speed information for all Flarm traffic that does not have an active collision alarm. Only relative position and relative altitude (with random noise added so you can't figure out if the target is climbing) are provided inside that airspace volume. For traffic with an active collision alarm it provides all the available Flarm information EXCEPT Flarm ID, so you don't know who it is under any circumstances (which can present a problem if you have the need to call him off - though without FlarmNet or some other translation to Contest ID, it's a pretty clumsy way to address someone).

Hope that helps.

9B


What if the software had an option to suppress Flarm ID and climb rate, while keeping all the other Powerflarm features out to the maximum range of PowerFlarm? Wouldn't that keep all the safety features of PowerFlarm while eliminating leeching, and also preventing pilots from getting information about where the good thermals are?


That's been discussed and would satisfy some.

Ideally you'd like ID available at minimum for traffic with an active alarm so you can say "9B turn right" at a safe distance. Relative altitude data allows some sense of climb rate - with a little math.

However, others have argued that being able to see any glider circling at beyond visual range - especially when you really need a thermal to avoid an outlanding - irreparably harms the spirit of the sport. This view contends that finding another glider climbing should depend solely on the pilot's natural visual acuity (or ability to afford Lasik).

9B

Ideally you'd like ID available at minimum for traffic with an active alarm so you can say "9B turn right" at a safe distance. Relative altitude data allows some sense of climb rate - with a little math.

However, others have argued that being able to see any glider circling at beyond visual range - especially when you really need a thermal to avoid an outlanding - irreparably harms the spirit of the sport. This view contends that finding another glider climbing should depend solely on the pilot's natural visual acuity (or ability to afford Lasik).

9B

9B,

Obviously you are trying to goad me on with that last comment. I'll bite.

Some of us still believe that looking at clouds and terrain, finding thermals yourself, is an important part of the sport. Throughout these threads this is still a lot of talk overstated talk about safety that is covering for what some folks really want, to buddy-fly their way around the race course..

BB has even said leading out is a losing strategy. Strange champions of the past were afraid to lead out. Is this the way we are heading?

FLARM with stealth as it is now really works well in a contest setting for collision avoidance. Those who claim otherwise have largely never tried it and/or want (need) to see others to make their way around the race course. Seems kind of weak-assed in my opinion.

Still waiting to hear what you think our sport should be about. You are on the RC. I'd like to know your vision on where we are going.

XC

Ideally you'd like ID available at minimum for traffic with an active alarm so you can say "9B turn right" at a safe distance. Relative altitude data allows some sense of climb rate - with a little math.

However, others have argued that being able to see any glider circling at beyond visual range - especially when you really need a thermal to avoid an outlanding - irreparably harms the spirit of the sport. This view contends that finding another glider climbing should depend solely on the pilot's natural visual acuity (or ability to afford Lasik).

9B

9B,

Obviously you are trying to goad me on with that last comment. I'll bite.

Some of us still believe that looking at clouds and terrain - finding thermals yourself, is an important part of the sport. Throughout these threads this is still a lot of overstated talk about safety that is covering for what some folks really want, to buddy-fly their way around the race course.

BB has even said leading out is a losing strategy. Strange, champions of the past weren't afraid to lead out. Is this the way we are heading?

FLARM with stealth as it is now really works well in a contest setting for collision avoidance. Those who claim otherwise have largely never tried it and/or want (in some cases need) to see others to make their way around the race course. Seems kind of weak-assed in my opinion.

Still waiting to hear what you think our sport should be about. You are on the RC. I'd like to know your vision for the future of the sport. Which parts should be keep that are essential to the sport?

Should we keep the part about not running a motor? Or should we begin to allow 2 five minutes periods of sustainer motor operation? That would be safer* yet and it would keep those who didn't get enough recent practice to stay higher up on the score sheet longer. Would that make for a better race?

XC

*Not sure sustainer motors have a good safety record compared to pure gliders.

Ideally you'd like ID available at minimum for traffic with an active alarm so you can say "9B turn right" at a safe distance. Relative altitude data allows some sense of climb rate - with a little math.

However, others have argued that being able to see any glider circling at beyond visual range - especially when you really need a thermal to avoid an outlanding - irreparably harms the spirit of the sport. This view contends that finding another glider climbing should depend solely on the pilot's natural visual acuity (or ability to afford Lasik).

9B

9B,

Obviously you are trying to goad me on with that last comment. I'll bite.

Some of us still believe that looking at clouds and terrain, finding thermals yourself, is an important part of the sport. Throughout these threads this is still a lot of talk overstated talk about safety that is covering for what some folks really want, to buddy-fly their way around the race course..

BB has even said leading out is a losing strategy. Strange, champions of the past weren't afraid to lead out. Is this the way we are heading?

FLARM with stealth as it is now really works well in a contest setting for collision avoidance. Those who claim otherwise have largely never tried it and/or want (need) to see others to make their way around the race course. Seems kind of weak-assed in my opinion.

Still waiting to hear what you think our sport should be about. You are on the RC. I'd like to know your vision on where we are going. What parts are essential to the sport?

Should we keep the part about not running a motor? Or should we allow folks to run their motors for 2 five minute periods? This would arguably be safer and those who maybe didn't get enough practice in could stay competitive on the score sheet longer. Still seems like an arbitrary limit, though.

I'd hate to limit engine technology. If we only allow 10 minutes of engine time they better count. I'd want to get some good performance out of my engine. All this too can be part of the undefined future of our sport.

XC

No dice - if you think there's a possible conflict it's incumbent upon
you to alter your course, not to tell someone else to get out of your way.

I can see it now... There's the leader up ahead and it looks like he's
climbing. I'll transmit, "9B, turn right immediately for collision
avoidance!" There now... I'll just move into the thermal he's just
vacated. Gee, look how quickly I can overtake him.

The second paragraph is obviously for comic relief to this interminable
squabble.

On 1/3/2016 1:49 PM, Andy Blackburn wrote:
Ideally you'd like ID available at minimum for traffic with an active alarm so you can say "9B turn right" at a safe distance. Relative altitude data allows some sense of climb rate - with a little math.

--
Dan, 5J

My -29 was in a mid-air at Uvalde (before I owned it). The first thing I bought for my Antares 20E was a PowerFlarm. To me this issue is about decreasing the abilities of a safety device.

I run a helicopter emergency service. We have changed the safety culture of our industry by agreeing that "safety is not proprietary". Could our competitors gain an advantage with some of the information shared? Absolutely, but the greater benefit of safety out weights the small risk of losing a few flights.

Does this sound familiar?

Tom 2N0 / TK