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#1
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team Selection Policy Changes
The US Team Committee, in cooperation with the Rules
Committee and based on responses received through the on-line competition survey conducted last year, has decided to recommend to the SSA Board of Directors at its winter meeting that they approve amendment to the Selection Policy for US Club Class Teams selected for WGC participation starting in 2011. 1) We will no longer restrict eligibility to pilots who have not participated in a previous WGC event, i.e. all participants in Sports Class Nationals flying eligible gliders will be eligible 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our Sports Class Nationals. It is anticipated that most Standard, 15 Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated. We are currently rewriting our Selection Policy to reflect these changes and will publish the text in draft form as soon as possible. A draft Eligible Glider List will be also be produced incorporating these changes. If approved, our selection next fall for the year two pilot for the 2012 WGC will be made on this basis. These proposed changes do not affect selection of the year one pilot - i.e. selected two years in advance of the 2012 Sports Class WGC in Argentina, provided as currently required that the pilot participates in the 2011 pre-World contest there. Given that these changes are being proposed, we wanted to disseminate the news as early as possible so that interested pilots could plan their 2011 competition schedules accordingly For the Committee DJ |
#2
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
On Sep 18, 4:45*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote: * * * * * * * * The US Team Committee, in cooperation with the Rules Committee and based on responses received through the on-line competition survey conducted last year, has decided to recommend to the SSA Board of Directors at its winter meeting that they approve amendment to the Selection Policy for US Club Class Teams selected for WGC participation starting in 2011. * * * * * * * * 1) We will no longer restrict eligibility to pilots who have not participated in a previous WGC event, i.e. all participants in Sports Class Nationals flying eligible gliders will be eligible * * * * * * * * 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our Sports Class Nationals. *It is anticipated that most Standard, 15 Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated. * * * * * * * * We are currently rewriting our Selection Policy to reflect these changes and will publish the text in draft form as soon as possible. A draft Eligible Glider List will be also be produced incorporating these changes. If approved, our selection next fall for the year two pilot for the 2012 WGC will be made on this basis. * * * * * * * * These proposed changes do not affect selection of the year one pilot - i.e. selected two years in advance of the 2012 Sports Class WGC in Argentina, provided as currently required that the pilot participates in the 2011 pre-World contest there. * * * * * * * * Given that these changes are being proposed, we wanted to disseminate the news *as early as possible so that interested pilots could plan their 2011 competition schedules accordingly For the Committee DJ Money talks! .. |
#3
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
* * * * * * * * 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be
flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our Sports Class Nationals. *It is anticipated that most Standard, 15 Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated. So it seems those who resisted the establishment of a bona fide Club Class here in the U.S. have now *******ized it. How utterly inane and comically predictable! Ray Cornay |
#4
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
On Sep 18, 4:45*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote: * * * * * * * * The US Team Committee, in cooperation with the Rules Committee and based on responses received through the on-line competition survey conducted last year, has decided to recommend to the SSA Board of Directors at its winter meeting that they approve amendment to the Selection Policy for US Club Class Teams selected for WGC participation starting in 2011. * * * * * * * * 1) We will no longer restrict eligibility to pilots who have not participated in a previous WGC event, i.e. all participants in Sports Class Nationals flying eligible gliders will be eligible * * * * * * * * 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our Sports Class Nationals. *It is anticipated that most Standard, 15 Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated. * * * * * * * * We are currently rewriting our Selection Policy to reflect these changes and will publish the text in draft form as soon as possible. A draft Eligible Glider List will be also be produced incorporating these changes. If approved, our selection next fall for the year two pilot for the 2012 WGC will be made on this basis. * * * * * * * * These proposed changes do not affect selection of the year one pilot - i.e. selected two years in advance of the 2012 Sports Class WGC in Argentina, provided as currently required that the pilot participates in the 2011 pre-World contest there. * * * * * * * * Given that these changes are being proposed, we wanted to disseminate the news *as early as possible so that interested pilots could plan their 2011 competition schedules accordingly For the Committee DJ 1. I would encourage the committee to delay implementing the changes until 2012 so those that have "played by the rules" are not impacted two thirds of the way through a three year cycle. 2. If these are truly "proposed" and not already decided will there be a comment period? Flying a true Club Class glider is very different from flying a newer glider. I am talking about 38 to 1 Std, Cirrus, LS-1, ASW 15, Std Jantar, etc. Also, the intent of the Club Class was to provide an avenue for those that do not have the funds or desire to spend $80,000 to $300,000 on a glider to be able to complete and represent their country. The last two sports class nationals have been won by ASG-29's, do we all have to spend $150,000 to play the game? The club class was to be the "common man's" class, the last place that you could not buy your way on to the team with the latest glider. 2010 was ruled by span and wing loading (ASG-29, Ventus 2cx, ASW-27's). Day five showed the difference when the lowest handicapped finisher was a Discus flown beautifully and persistently by Sarah Kelly, everything with a higher handicap could not penetrate the winds to cross the desert. 3. When will we see the corrected scores from 2009 and 2010 with the scoring errors fixed? While those years standings are "official" those that flew the contest should been informed of how they should have done and if those scores will count toward team selection. A fundamental error in the scoring program is a something that almost no one is going to catch in the midst of a contest. Tim |
#5
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
On Sep 18, 4:45*am, "John Godfrey (QT)"
wrote: * * * * * * * * The US Team Committee, in cooperation with the Rules Committee and based on responses received through the on-line competition survey conducted last year, has decided to recommend to the SSA Board of Directors at its winter meeting that they approve amendment to the Selection Policy for US Club Class Teams selected for WGC participation starting in 2011. * * * * * * * * 1) We will no longer restrict eligibility to pilots who have not participated in a previous WGC event, i.e. all participants in Sports Class Nationals flying eligible gliders will be eligible * * * * * * * * 2) We will broaden the list of gliders which may be flown to generate eligible scores for Club Class selection in our Sports Class Nationals. *It is anticipated that most Standard, 15 Meter, and 18 Meter gliders will be accommodated. * * * * * * * * We are currently rewriting our Selection Policy to reflect these changes and will publish the text in draft form as soon as possible. A draft Eligible Glider List will be also be produced incorporating these changes. If approved, our selection next fall for the year two pilot for the 2012 WGC will be made on this basis. * * * * * * * * These proposed changes do not affect selection of the year one pilot - i.e. selected two years in advance of the 2012 Sports Class WGC in Argentina, provided as currently required that the pilot participates in the 2011 pre-World contest there. * * * * * * * * Given that these changes are being proposed, we wanted to disseminate the news *as early as possible so that interested pilots could plan their 2011 competition schedules accordingly For the Committee DJ 1. I would encourage the committee to delay implementing the changes until 2012 so those that have "played by the rules" are not impacted two thirds of the way through a three year cycle. 2. If these are truly "proposed" and not already decided will there be a comment period? Flying a true Club Class glider is very different from flying a newer glider. I am talking about 38 to 1 Std, Cirrus, LS-1, ASW 15, Std Jantar, etc. Also, the intent of the Club Class was to provide an avenue for those that do not have the funds or desire to spend $80,000 to $300,000 on a glider to be able to complete and represent their country. The last two sports class nationals have been won by ASG-29's, do we all have to spend $150,000 to play the game? The club class was to be the "common man's" class, the last place that you could not buy your way on to the team with the latest glider. 2010 was ruled by span and wing loading (ASG-29, Ventus 2cx, ASW-27's). Day six showed the difference when the lowest handicapped finisher was a Discus flown beautifully and persistently by Sarah Kelly, everything with a higher handicap could not penetrate the winds to cross the desert. 3. When will we see the corrected scores from 2009 and 2010 with the scoring errors fixed? While those years standings are "official" those that flew the contest should been informed of how they should have done and if those scores will count toward team selection. A fundamental error in the scoring program is a something that almost no one is going to catch in the midst of a contest. Tim |
#6
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
So it seems those who resisted the establishment of a bona fide Club Class here in the U.S. have now *******ized it. How utterly inane and comically predictable! Ray Cornay The pilot ranking list shows Ray Cornay flew an LS4 in Region 5 South in 2008, but has not flown any sports class nationals. (I don't have "Mike's" last name.) Ray has snarky things to say about people "resisting the establishment of a bona fide club class", but when we ran a club class contest in region 5 south 2009, he didn't show up. And that's the basic problem. Everyone loves the idea of 50 new pilots duking it out in club class gliders to get on the world team in the abstract. Alas, it didn't happen in reality. Exactly one eligible pilot/glider showed up two years in a row at sports nationals. People with access to better gliders don't borrow a standard cirrus for their two week gliding vacations just because some rule said so. And people like Ray, for whom this whole thing was designed, do not show up. Before spouting off we should all go look at the sports class results at http://www.ssa.org/members/contestre...lass+Nationals and at the US team ranking list at http://soaringweb.org/US_Team/HomePage.html (I gather the updated versions including this year's results will be up soon.) These are the sad facts that the US team committee has to deal with.Should we really send pilots to the worlds based on these results? Look hard and think what you would do. The SSA built it, they don't come. At some point you face reality. The claim that anyone at the US team or rules committee "resisted" club class is also not founded. Two club class contests have been held. Anyone who wants to organize one is welcome to do it. We'll chalk Ray up as a volunteer to CD the next one. No, the RC did not destroy the single most successful contest class in the US (sports class) by passing a rule saying that 2/3 (yes, 2/3) of the gliders who actually show up can't fly, all based on an unproven theory. The SSA came close, by saying that 2/3 of those who show up can't earn team points. We all should learn from this good but unsuccessful idea and the world class debacle: you need to grow and show popularity of a contest class before you commit to it. If you want club class to succeed, put on a club class regional or super regional, and show up! Disclaimer: I had no part in the US team decision, nor do I speak for the rules committee -- my opinions only. John Cochrane |
#7
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
On Sep 18, 10:38*am, John Cochrane
wrote: So it seems those who resisted the establishment of a bona fide Club Class here in the U.S. have now *******ized it. How utterly inane and comically predictable! Ray Cornay The pilot ranking list shows Ray Cornay flew an LS4 in Region 5 South in 2008, but has not flown any sports class nationals. (I don't have "Mike's" last name.) Ray has snarky things to say about people "resisting the establishment of a bona fide club class", but when we ran a club class contest in region 5 south 2009, he didn't show up. And that's the basic problem. Everyone loves the idea of 50 new pilots duking it out in club class gliders to get on the world team in the abstract. Alas, it didn't happen in reality. Exactly one *eligible pilot/glider showed up two years in a row at sports nationals. People with access to better gliders don't borrow a standard cirrus for their two week gliding vacations just because some rule said so. And people like Ray, for whom this whole thing was designed, do not show up. Before spouting off *we should all go look at the sports class results athttp://www.ssa.org/members/contestreports/ContestResultsFullDetail.as.... and at the US team ranking list athttp://soaringweb.org/US_Team/HomePage.html (I gather the updated versions including this year's results will be up soon.) These are the sad facts that the US team committee has to deal with.Should we really send pilots to the worlds based on these results? Look hard and think what you would do. The SSA built it, they don't come. At some point you face reality. The claim that anyone at the US team or rules committee "resisted" club class is also not founded. *Two club class contests have been held. Anyone who wants to organize one is welcome to do it. We'll chalk Ray up as a volunteer to CD the next one. No, the RC did not destroy the single most successful contest class in the US (sports class) by passing a rule saying that 2/3 (yes, 2/3) of the gliders who actually show up can't fly, all based on an unproven theory. *The SSA came close, by saying that 2/3 of those who show up can't earn team points. We all should learn from this good but unsuccessful idea and the world class debacle: you need to grow and show popularity of a contest class before you commit to it. If you want club class to succeed, put on a club class regional or super regional, and show up! Disclaimer: I had no part in the US team decision, nor do I speak for the rules committee -- my opinions only. John Cochrane My name is Mike Carris and I have just purchased, with a partner, an old forgotten PIK 20B that will take at least 500 total hours to get flying again. I did this for one reason, to fly in the Club Class, which is an FAI event, except in the USA. Now, there will be no club class, just another opportunity, it seems, for a very few people that can afford it, to get another chance to be on a world team. Why not allow the Club Class to flourish as it was intened. Soaring in the USA takes a step backwards with this decision. Do something for the sport, you know the one that does not require mega bucks to compete in. Mike Carris "0" |
#8
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
My name is Mike Carris and I have just purchased, with a partner, an old forgotten PIK 20B that will take at least 500 total hours to get flying again. I did this for one reason, to fly in the Club Class, which is an FAI event, except in the USA. Now, there will be no club class, just another opportunity, it seems, *for a very few *people that can afford it, to get another chance to be on a world team. *Why not allow the Club Class to flourish as it was intened. Soaring in the USA takes a step backwards with this decision. Do something for the sport, you know the one that does not require mega bucks to compete in. Mike Carris "0" Megabucks are not required to compete in sports class. Dave Stephenson had a habit of crushing us with KA6 and Fokas; Tim McAllister has won in a Libelle. Sports class is handicapped. The handicaps not only work, they favor older gliders. The tasking guidelines also favor the older gliders. Tasks are supposed to be set for a standard cirrus, and if that's too short for a nimbus 4, too bad. Ray Gimmey didn't buy his way from nowhere to sports class dominance with an ASG29, he happens to be a pretty good pilot too! Read the proposal -- this said nothing about club class in the US, it said only something about how the US team will select pilots for the world team. There is and will be a club class anytime someone wants to organize and go to a club class event. Which I hope you will do; vibrant club class racing in the US would be great to see. John Cochrane |
#9
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
On Sep 18, 9:22*am, Tim Taylor wrote:
*A fundamental error in the scoring program is a something that almost no one is going to catch in the midst of a contest. Tim What error in the scoring program? |
#10
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Potential Club Class (US Sports Class) World Team SelectionPolicy Changes
On Sep 18, 11:33*am, John Cochrane
wrote: My name is Mike Carris and I have just purchased, with a partner, an old forgotten PIK 20B that will take at least 500 total hours to get flying again. I did this for one reason, to fly in the Club Class, which is an FAI event, except in the USA. Now, there will be no club class, just another opportunity, it seems, *for a very few *people that can afford it, to get another chance to be on a world team. *Why not allow the Club Class to flourish as it was intened. Soaring in the USA takes a step backwards with this decision. Do something for the sport, you know the one that does not require mega bucks to compete in. Mike Carris "0" Megabucks are not required to compete in sports class. Dave Stephenson had a habit of crushing us with KA6 and Fokas; Tim McAllister has won in a Libelle. Sports class is handicapped. The handicaps not only work, they favor older gliders. *The tasking guidelines also favor the older gliders. Tasks are supposed to be set for a standard cirrus, and if that's too short for a nimbus 4, too bad. Ray Gimmey didn't buy his way from nowhere to sports class dominance with an ASG29, he happens to be a pretty good pilot too! *Read the proposal -- this said nothing about club class in the US, it said only something about how the US team will select pilots for the world team. There is and will be a club class anytime someone wants to organize and go to a club class event. Which I hope you will do; vibrant club class racing in the US would be great to see. John Cochrane John, I do not care about the Sports Class as a substitute for the FAI Club Class in the USA, and with kind regards, although I know you mean well, I do not find your argument very convincing. There are excellent pilots that win in their classes. Let them remain there doing their best, and if they want to fly Club Class, let them buy a Club Class ship. Thats it. Mike |
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