USAF considers new anti-ship weapon.

The USAF is considering building a new weapon to go after heavily-
defended ships. See:

http://aviationnow.ecnext.com/free-s...icle=DEMO09135

Shouldn't the Navy be taking the lead on a project like this?

wrote in message
oups.com...
The USAF is considering building a new weapon to go after heavily-
defended ships. See:


http://aviationnow.ecnext.com/free-s...icle=DEMO09135

Shouldn't the Navy be taking the lead on a project like this?


They already did, its called Harpoon. An anti-ship missile that can be
launched from aircraft, surface ships, or submarines.

Been there, done that.

JD

Joe Delphi wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
The USAF is considering building a new weapon to go after heavily-
defended ships. See:


http://aviationnow.ecnext.com/free-s...icle=DEMO09135

Shouldn't the Navy be taking the lead on a project like this?


They already did, its called Harpoon. An anti-ship missile that can be
launched from aircraft, surface ships, or submarines.

Been there, done that.

JD

Harpoon has been around for awhile now, though newer versions are an
improvement
over the original. Can Harpoon still hack it against modern air
defenses?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Harpoon has been around for awhile now, though newer versions are an
improvement
over the original. Can Harpoon still hack it against modern air
defenses?


Yes, Harpoon has been in the Fleet since at least the late 1980s, but it is
still a formidable weapon. Not sure what a "JASSAM-variant" would offer
that would be significantly better than Harpoon.

What do you mean by "modern air defenses". Are you talking about the
automatic close in weapon systems that shoot out 1 zillion depleted uranium
rounds per second? Not sure who has those systems other than the United
States or how Harpoon or JASSAM would perform against that type of defense.


JD

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:28:31 -0700, "Joe Delphi"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

Harpoon has been around for awhile now, though newer versions are an
improvement
over the original. Can Harpoon still hack it against modern air
defenses?


Yes, Harpoon has been in the Fleet since at least the late 1980s, but it is
still a formidable weapon. Not sure what a "JASSAM-variant" would offer
that would be significantly better than Harpoon.

What do you mean by "modern air defenses". Are you talking about the
automatic close in weapon systems that shoot out 1 zillion depleted uranium
rounds per second? Not sure who has those systems other than the United
States or how Harpoon or JASSAM would perform against that type of defense.


Surface to air technology has improved to the point where a
Harpoon launcher can be at excessive risk. ISTM that the USAF
wants to stand back a bit farther.

Peter Skelton

Peter Skelton wrote:


[SNIP]


Surface to air technology has improved to the point where a
Harpoon launcher can be at excessive risk. ISTM that the USAF
wants to stand back a bit farther.

Peter Skelton



Which brings me back to the question in the original post. Why is
the USAF taking the lead in this, and not the Navy?

Peter Skelton wrote:

Surface to air technology has improved to the point where a
Harpoon launcher can be at excessive risk. ISTM that the USAF
wants to stand back a bit farther.

Peter Skelton

Not many BUFF's around and even fewer of them with the ability to launch
Harpoon. With AMI all BUFF's can launch JASSM and it has a longer range
with a much larger warhead and some LO. Solve the moving target update
part and you have a pretty effective anti-ship weapon.

Michael Kelly
BUFF Flight Test Engineer

"Joe Delphi" wrote in message
news:6yOVe.240305$E95.101677@fed1read01...
wrote in message
oups.com...

Harpoon has been around for awhile now, though newer versions are an
improvement
over the original. Can Harpoon still hack it against modern air
defenses?


Yes, Harpoon has been in the Fleet since at least the late 1980s,

Actually, since the seventies. First test was in '72, followed by production
beginning in '75 and initial operational capability in '77 (surface
launched), '79 (air launched), and '81 (sub launched).

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-84.html

but it is
still a formidable weapon.

A lot of upgrades have kept it competitive so far.

Not sure what a "JASSAM-variant" would offer
that would be significantly better than Harpoon.

H'mmm...better range and stealth perhaps?


What do you mean by "modern air defenses". Are you talking about the
automatic close in weapon systems that shoot out 1 zillion depleted
uranium
rounds per second?

Air defenses are layered. If you can kill the launch platform before it can
get its own offensive shot off, then you don't have as much need for the
CIWS defenses. Or if you can get enough of a radar return to allow targeting
of the incoming missile with one of your own air defense missiles (which is
why a stealthy attack missile might be advantageous).

Not sure who has those systems other than the United
States

Lots of countries do these days.

or how Harpoon or JASSAM would perform against that type of defense.

Harpoon is still viable, but the base system is getting rather long in the
tooth. Having an ability to engage a well defended target from longer range,
and using munitions that are not as readily detectable by the bad guy's
terminal defense sustems, would probably be considered a good thing.

Brooks



JD

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:28:31 -0700, "Joe Delphi"
wrote:


Yes, Harpoon has been in the Fleet since at least the late 1980s, but it is
still a formidable weapon. Not sure what a "JASSAM-variant" would offer

How formidable will it be 10, 20, or 30 years from now? A weapon being
designed today will be in service then. Today's threats are not the
issue.

What do you mean by "modern air defenses". Are you talking about the
automatic close in weapon systems that shoot out 1 zillion depleted uranium
rounds per second? Not sure who has those systems other than the United

Just about everybody of any importance. USSR had their own equivalent,
as do European navies; the Soviet, European, and US weapons have been
sold all over the world. And to call them "modern" is a bit of a
stretch: CIWS has been in the US fleet since 1983 - that's 22 years.

Modern air defenses are things like Aegis and successor systems.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

"Joe Delphi" wrote in message
news:6yOVe.240305$E95.101677@fed1read01...
wrote in message
oups.com...

Harpoon has been around for awhile now, though newer versions are an
improvement
over the original. Can Harpoon still hack it against modern air
defenses?


Yes, Harpoon has been in the Fleet since at least the late 1980s, but it
is
still a formidable weapon. Not sure what a "JASSAM-variant" would offer
that would be significantly better than Harpoon.

What do you mean by "modern air defenses". Are you talking about the
automatic close in weapon systems that shoot out 1 zillion depleted
uranium
rounds per second? Not sure who has those systems other than the United
States or how Harpoon or JASSAM would perform against that type of
defense.


JD




The Russians, French and Chinese have a system similar to CIWS.... how
effective they are remains to be seen.