Checklist

wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:4k3gb5-8k8.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:tmaeb5-6dn.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Why would you need a gear check for takeoff?


Corporate pilot picks up the newly painted and upholsterd
Aero
Commander
and didn't check the gear switch.

About half way down the runway (where the bump was) the gear
sucks
up
and the newly painted belly scapes for a while, but the thing
gets
airborne.

Once around the pattern and back to the shop for new belly
skin
and
more paint.

That's why a gear check for takeoff.



Nope, that;'s why a cockpit safety inspection.

Semantics.


No, seperate checklist.

From the C172RG checklist in the POH:

Section 1, item 2. Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN

In the pre takeoff checks?

In the POH I have (1981) it has a section called "checklist
procedures".

It then has:

preflight inspection
before starting engine
starting engine
before takeoff
takeoff
etc.

"Landing Gear Lever -- DOWN" appears in both preflight inspection
and before starting engine.



But not in the before takeoff checks.
It appears in every retactable during the cockpit safety inspection (
your preflight begins with this, though it is not partitioned) And
often before engine start as a precaution. Never seen it in the
before takeoff checks.. You'd probably already know it wasnt down at
that point.

Semantics.


Nope. Different stages of operation distinct from each other.


The 172RG has a single checklist you are supposed to perform before
each flight.

There is nothing called anything near "cockpit safety inspection"
anywhere in it.

YMMV with other POH's.


No, not a POH at all.
So, your preflight checklist includes the runup? Not even a cub does
that.


Bertie

Dudley Henriques wrote in news:0YednZs4e-
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in news:H-
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

buttman wrote:
On Mar 22, 1:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
But I've never retracted the gear
on an airplane.
jejehjehjehejhehjjeheh fjukkwjit. A self proclaimed master of
gear
systems, yet never retracted a single airplane's landing gear.
Talk
about making idiotic statements.
I believe he meant "on the ground". It's sort of a deductive
reasoning
thing :-)


He's a regular Inspector Clousseau.



Bertie
It's unbelievable he doesn't like us. We're such lovable people :-)


I, myself , am a cupcake.

Bertie

..and I of course am a harmless lovable fuzzball.


I've seen your pic, where's the fuzz?


Oh wait, never mind.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in news:H-
:
That was Hi Line. Right where 202 and 309 met.

That's the place. neverheard it called high line, though. Vito was part
owner when I was there which must have been a few years later. The line
up was Vern Moyer, Henry "Dutch" Gronendahl, Vito and Ron Gruver. Vito
did a lot of my instruction. He was kind of scary to me, and the
necceisty for him to pick up his left hand with his right to put it on
the throttle when he took control was pretty exciting. We never dared
ask, but the rumour around the field was that he was injured in a
banner towing accident.

I managed that field for
a while. We had a light tower right in front of the office shack.

Yeah, myself and another airpoert brat, who now commands a 777 for AA,
climbed up it one night after everyone had gone.

Don't
know where the name Hi Line came from; probably from Ed Size, the guy
who owned the field when I was there. I believe he bought it from Vito
Bruzas. Lou Cristaldi and I were the CFI's there at the time. Right
before Buddy Turner went into the ridge.
I'll bet you and I were within a few months of knowing each other :-)

Maybe. I would have started there in the late sixties. I had been flying
at PGC before that. I vaguely remember a guy named Lou who flew the CAP
T-34 a lot. Might be the guy you mention, but I never had him for an
instructor. Ed Size I never heard of. Vern has an operation at Easton
now., Dutch married big money and I think Vito is still alive.
somewhere.


Bertie

From what you are saying I think you came a bit after me. I just can't
remember if Size bought the operation from Vito or sold it to him.
You are right about Cristaldi and the T34. I've flown that T34 myself
having been a check pilot in that aircraft for CAP while I was there.
Lou was also a CAP check pilot. They kept it in the Tee Hangars way down
to the left of the flight office toward the big water tower. That was a
nice T34 BTW.
I remember having a student named Jordan who owned a Cessna 170 based
there. His father was an insurance guru. They lived in a virtual palace
in Villanova. :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in news:0YednZs4e-
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in news:H-
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

buttman wrote:
On Mar 22, 1:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
But I've never retracted the gear
on an airplane.
jejehjehjehejhehjjeheh fjukkwjit. A self proclaimed master of
gear
systems, yet never retracted a single airplane's landing gear.
Talk
about making idiotic statements.
I believe he meant "on the ground". It's sort of a deductive
reasoning
thing :-)


He's a regular Inspector Clousseau.



Bertie
It's unbelievable he doesn't like us. We're such lovable people :-)

I, myself , am a cupcake.

Bertie
..and I of course am a harmless lovable fuzzball.


I've seen your pic, where's the fuzz?


Oh wait, never mind.


Bertie

Hey...I told my wife I was getting a haircut. She said "which one?"
:-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


Speaking of long nights, did you catch the news the other night about
the two line pilots falling asleep and overshooting their destination
on
one of the Hawaiian Islands? Apparently they were all coupled up on
cruise and went right through the VOR null. ATC woke them up going
outbound on the reciprocal. I missed on how far out they got, but one
things' for sure. There wasn't much in front of them to land on and
they
were supposedly fueled up for the short haul.
Unbelievable :-)))))


Oh completely believable!
BTW, we don't use VORs anymore except to update the inertial stuff, if
even that. If we fly to a VOR it could just as well be any other
waypoint in the box for the nav value it's providing. Spooky eh?
The both guys falling asleep is enough of an issue that they have alarms
in the flight deck that go off if you don't play with something for over
15 minutes. Best thing to do if you're both feeling dozy is for one guy
to get very uncomfortable and the other to take a 15 minute nap. Our
human factors training even gives advice on how to power nap and my
company condones the practice. The alternative is uncontroled microsleep
( when your head nods for a few seocnds and you wake up again abruptly)
which is completely beyond even the most determined person's control and
is very dangerous if it;'s happening on approach.


Bertie

Don't know if these guys were on the INS or something else, but I
vaguely recall somebody mentioning VOR. Could have been an early inter
island shuttle type if so. I didn't catch the type involved.
You know the press....if they missed a waypoint, that's a VOR!

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Hey...I told my wife I was getting a haircut. She said "which one?"

You've got more than one?


Bertie

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in news:0YednZs4e-
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in news:H-
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

buttman wrote:
On Mar 22, 1:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
But I've never retracted the gear
on an airplane.
jejehjehjehejhehjjeheh fjukkwjit. A self proclaimed master of
gear
systems, yet never retracted a single airplane's landing gear.
Talk
about making idiotic statements.
I believe he meant "on the ground". It's sort of a deductive
reasoning
thing :-)


He's a regular Inspector Clousseau.


Bertie
It's unbelievable he doesn't like us. We're such lovable people :-)

I, myself , am a cupcake.
Bertie
..and I of course am a harmless lovable fuzzball.


I've seen your pic, where's the fuzz?

Oh wait, never mind.

Bertie

Hey...I told my wife I was getting a haircut. She said "which one?"
:-)


You have more than one? Lucky stiff! :-)

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


Speaking of long nights, did you catch the news the other night
about the two line pilots falling asleep and overshooting their
destination
on
one of the Hawaiian Islands? Apparently they were all coupled up on
cruise and went right through the VOR null. ATC woke them up going
outbound on the reciprocal. I missed on how far out they got, but
one things' for sure. There wasn't much in front of them to land on
and
they
were supposedly fueled up for the short haul.
Unbelievable :-)))))


Oh completely believable!
BTW, we don't use VORs anymore except to update the inertial stuff,
if even that. If we fly to a VOR it could just as well be any other
waypoint in the box for the nav value it's providing. Spooky eh?
The both guys falling asleep is enough of an issue that they have
alarms in the flight deck that go off if you don't play with
something for over 15 minutes. Best thing to do if you're both
feeling dozy is for one guy to get very uncomfortable and the other
to take a 15 minute nap. Our human factors training even gives advice
on how to power nap and my company condones the practice. The
alternative is uncontroled microsleep ( when your head nods for a few
seocnds and you wake up again abruptly) which is completely beyond
even the most determined person's control and is very dangerous if
it;'s happening on approach.


Bertie

Don't know if these guys were on the INS or something else, but I
vaguely recall somebody mentioning VOR. Could have been an early inter
island shuttle type if so. I didn't catch the type involved.
You know the press....if they missed a waypoint, that's a VOR!

Oh it could have been a VOR, the point is the Fligh tManagement System just
treats them like any other point in space. it doesn't use them to naviaget,
only to check it's position. So when we fly to one we aren't using any
direct info from the VOR.

I thnk it was an Airbus, but it's happened quite a lot over the years.
First exposure I had to it was on a DC-7. I was jumpseating and woke up in
some heavy weather to see both pilots out cold and the FE messing around
with something up front. A friend of mine was deadheading on a ANT 124 and
went up to ask the crew if they wanted some coffee when they were mid-
atlantic and there was nobody in the flight deck! They'd all gone to bed.

There's a cartoon about it here, scroll down a bit

http://www.aviatorwebsite.com/acatal...ing-cards.html

And the old saw "I'd like to die in my sleep like my buddy Joe did, and not
in screaming teror like his passengers"
There was a very good cartoon depicting two guys snoring away and drooling
on aredey with the caption, "Ever vigilant, the Captain scans the overhead
panel while the copilot checks the status of the window heat with his
cheek.

Thing is, we're only human and this area falls firmly into the territory of
what I was talking about before regarding vigilance.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


Speaking of long nights, did you catch the news the other night
about the two line pilots falling asleep and overshooting their
destination
on
one of the Hawaiian Islands? Apparently they were all coupled up on
cruise and went right through the VOR null. ATC woke them up going
outbound on the reciprocal. I missed on how far out they got, but
one things' for sure. There wasn't much in front of them to land on
and
they
were supposedly fueled up for the short haul.
Unbelievable :-)))))

Oh completely believable!
BTW, we don't use VORs anymore except to update the inertial stuff,
if even that. If we fly to a VOR it could just as well be any other
waypoint in the box for the nav value it's providing. Spooky eh?
The both guys falling asleep is enough of an issue that they have
alarms in the flight deck that go off if you don't play with
something for over 15 minutes. Best thing to do if you're both
feeling dozy is for one guy to get very uncomfortable and the other
to take a 15 minute nap. Our human factors training even gives advice
on how to power nap and my company condones the practice. The
alternative is uncontroled microsleep ( when your head nods for a few
seocnds and you wake up again abruptly) which is completely beyond
even the most determined person's control and is very dangerous if
it;'s happening on approach.


Bertie

Don't know if these guys were on the INS or something else, but I
vaguely recall somebody mentioning VOR. Could have been an early inter
island shuttle type if so. I didn't catch the type involved.
You know the press....if they missed a waypoint, that's a VOR!

Oh it could have been a VOR, the point is the Fligh tManagement System just
treats them like any other point in space. it doesn't use them to naviaget,
only to check it's position. So when we fly to one we aren't using any
direct info from the VOR.

I thnk it was an Airbus, but it's happened quite a lot over the years.
First exposure I had to it was on a DC-7. I was jumpseating and woke up in
some heavy weather to see both pilots out cold and the FE messing around
with something up front. A friend of mine was deadheading on a ANT 124 and
went up to ask the crew if they wanted some coffee when they were mid-
atlantic and there was nobody in the flight deck! They'd all gone to bed.

There's a cartoon about it here, scroll down a bit

http://www.aviatorwebsite.com/acatal...ing-cards.html

And the old saw "I'd like to die in my sleep like my buddy Joe did, and not
in screaming teror like his passengers"
There was a very good cartoon depicting two guys snoring away and drooling
on aredey with the caption, "Ever vigilant, the Captain scans the overhead
panel while the copilot checks the status of the window heat with his
cheek.

Thing is, we're only human and this area falls firmly into the territory of
what I was talking about before regarding vigilance.

Bertie
Great cartoon!

So true. We are after all, only human..........MOST of us that is!! :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Hey...I told my wife I was getting a haircut. She said "which one?"

You've got more than one?


Bertie

Hold on....I'm counting.........3 I think!!!

--
Dudley Henriques