If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
You might want to look further at the brake system. On my LS-3a, which
has a similar arrangement to yours, I can stand it on the nose with the brakes. And I have never had a particularly difficult time steering while braking. Larry " wrote in message oups.com: Casey is correct - a lot depends on the glider. My flapped LS6 approaches and lands at very similar speeds to Casey's LS8 (no big surprise there). On the other hand, the Pik-20B that I occasionally fly approaches a LOT slower and can be stopped a lot sooner than my LS6. Lower wing loading has something to do with it, but the nature of 90 degree flaps means a slower approach is usually possible. I like them both - and there have been times I wished my -6 had 90 degree flaps on approach! (or at least a real brake...). LS brakes, on the other hand...Hideous small Tost drum "emergency" brake actuated via the rudder pedals. That design task must have been fobbed off on the newest apprentice at the LS factory. Not only does it not provide any reassuring retardation (especially landing with no wind - or worse still, full of water), but it's almost impossible to steer and brake at the same time. Kirk 66 |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Wish that I could figure out why this is so.....I've pulled many brakes on multiple gliders and cleaned, sanded, scuffed and lubed any parts that needed to be and have never found any of them to be worth more than a barely noticable effect in deceleration. There was a mod where the brake was split in order to be more effective several years ago that some folks tried but in the end most said that they didn't think it was worth it. No doubt that the hydraulic brakes will put them all on their noses but it's a rare drum that will.
Casey Lenox KC Phoenix |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Then you must have double-jointed ankles!
Seriously, what it needs is a bigger wheel, a hydraulic disc brake, and activation by a squeeze lever on the stick. Which is sorta what DG is offering on new LS8s and 10, isn't it? Except they may use the spoiler lever for the brakes - due to trim lever on stick. I'm happy for you that your LS3 has a working brake - it's probably been worked on, which I agree I should do to mine soon. Forturnately, I now fly off a grass field and stopping is not a great problem. But it's nice that the glider manufacturers have over the years come to realize that gliders are often flown from paved strips - and now provide decent brakes. Kirk 66 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Last winter I bought a LS3. I had 200 hours flight experience and it was the
first flapped glider I've ever flown. I had no problem using flaps in the first flight. During take-off I used 0º as flap setting, so it handled as a standard class glider. During free flight I used all flap settings without any trouble. LS3 flaps are very intuitive. Landing is a bit different as the flap in landing position produces high drag, so high approach seems to me a better way to land. If I predict a low approach I don't use landing setting, but rather +5º setting. Anyway, it was very simple to adapt to the LS3 flaps. However from what I've seen from fellow glider pilots, not all flapped gliders are as easy. I recall some guys flying ASW20 that in take-off they use negative flap setting (to increase aileron effectiveness, otherwise a wing drop was very common) and in the middle of the take-off roll they put 0º setting. I recall many aborted take-offs due to wing drops. I suggest you to talk to many people that know a lot on the glider model you intend to buy, in order to understand the glider behaviour and characteristics. José Barriga "skysailor" wrote in message oups.com... I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
I don't think you can answer the question by focusing only on the issue of
flaps. A better question is "How many new and different things will my first glider have that I am not experienced with?" If the answer is only "just flaps" - no big deal. If it's flaps plus things like no spoilers/90 degree flaps, or a drogue chute, or side mounted stick, or V tail, or large span - then you have to be very careful that you are not over extending yourself. My first glider did not have flaps (Phoebus B) - my son's did (ASW-20). Both were good choices I think. Good luck Roy |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Flaps are not a problem as long as you remember they
are there and remember to set them appropriately. In many ways they can make the glider easier to fly in terms of better approach control, and better aileron control if negative flap is selected for the early part of the take off ground run and after touchdown on landing. However the ability to evolve a third arm for operating the flap lever would be useful on occasions! Other things to consider a 1) Extra complication and maintenance costs. 2) Positive flap limiting speeds. You can damage things if you fly too fast in positive settings. 3) Spin recovery becomes a bit more complicated. You are most likely to spin when turning slowly in a thermal with positive flap selected, in which case the first action must be to select neutral or negative flap before carrying out the normal spin recovery. Otherwise you risk exceeding the flap limiting speed in the recovery dive, which is a possible cause of several glider break-ups and fatalities. Basically flapped gliders should not be flown by forgetful or disorganised pilots! Derek Copeland --------------------------- At 02:06 24 August 2005, Skysailor wrote: I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Derek Copeland wrote:
3) Spin recovery becomes a bit more complicated. You are most likely to spin when turning slowly in a thermal with positive flap selected, in which case the first action must be to select neutral or negative flap before carrying out the normal spin recovery. Otherwise you risk exceeding the flap limiting speed in the recovery dive, which is a possible cause of several glider break-ups and fatalities. Be sure to read and heed the manual. In the ASW 20 and ASH 26, for example, selecting negative flap is used to halt the spin more quickly, not just to avoid potential overspeeding for the thermalling flap position. In those gliders, selecting negative flap may be sufficient to stop the spin with no further action. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
In article .com,
"skysailor" wrote: I have approximately 110 hours in sailplanes in the past 2 years and had no prior experience. I am evaluating used gliders for purchase.The big kahuna's in the club are pretty adamant about purchasing a first glider without flaps. My question is: Are flaps that big a problem for a low time pilot and why??? There many good flapped gliders for sale. I would like some opinions concerning this. I don't think flaps are a big deal if you can cope with a manual transmission car ;-) Looking back, i started flying my first flapped glider (an original model Janus) when I had 75 hours total time and was signed off on it 3.5 months later when I had 110 hours -- the club had a ten flights/ten hours requirement for it due to not only the flaps but also the sensitive all-flying tailplane and aerotowing on a belly hook (and also perhaps quite a bit of "the club's shiny new toy" syndrome). So I did 10 flights in it (hmm ... and only 7 hours) in those three months, but also 11.5 hours in a Club Libelle, 8 hours in a Std Libelle, 7 hours in a K6 and 3 hours between Blanik and K13. I think you should do a few flights in a flapped two-seater (such as the Janus) before flying a flapped single-seater and see how you go. -- Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+- Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O---------- |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Flaps = more opportunities for a mistake as you have something else to care
of ... It's built for: - better XC task average speed It helps: - For take-off, with negative setting - For xc landing in a short field It makes things more difficult: - When landing - If flaps set to "Landing" but you're too low - When landing in turbulence - significantly less controls efficiency - When landing at too-low speed - regaining speed takes long long - When spiraling - less controls efficiency In short - If you're not yet an reaonably experienced XC pilot, better to avoid flaps ... Go for unflapped ship then start using your wing ballasts first then if you still want to improve your perf then only ... Jean |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I bought my first glider (Mini-Nimbus) shortly before I took my checkride. I had far fewer hours than you. My very first flight in a flapped ship was after I passed my checkride and the insurance company allowed me to fly my own ship. The flaps were a complete non-event. I was then and am still today much more concerned with remembering that I have retractable gear. The flaps help when you care to use them, but frankly, were never a bit of distraction from the "blue up/green down" aspects of flying. Some folks here have spoken of getting in trouble with a positive flaps setting when too low on final. Trust me: if you are remotely paying attention, you will notice a distinct nose down attitude that tells you the flaps are set positive. Changing them to neutral will bring the nose up and also give you an instant but slight acceleration. Both of those are good if low on final. If you are the sort who would be low on final and not think to adjust your flaps setting, perhaps flying is not the sport for you regardless what class plane you are flying. Furthermore, flaps allow you to always arrive a bit high, since you can shed altitude more quickly than some other ships. Buy the best ship you can afford and learn to fly it well, whatever it is. And remember to have fun. Steve |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Negative flaps for better low speed aileron control? | [email protected] | Soaring | 41 | August 25th 05 06:01 AM |
f-84G Flaps question | Frederico Afonso | Military Aviation | 0 | September 8th 04 05:58 PM |
757 flaps miss-aligned in cruise | AnyBody43 | General Aviation | 1 | April 2nd 04 01:01 AM |
Cessna 182S flaps | EDR | Piloting | 7 | January 16th 04 02:37 AM |
Flaps and V-Tails of Death | Wallace Berry | Soaring | 59 | November 26th 03 09:54 PM |