You're Not Going To Believe This: Another Cirrus Is Down (Statesville, NC)

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

No word yet if the Cirrus was coming or going but my money is on going. They
say it crashed only 50 feet off the airport but they also say it was wooded. I
haven't been there in some years so I just can't remember the layout. I believe
the open runway is 5-23.


Statesville is less than 3 miles from my field. The ONLY runway there
is 5-23. FlightAware shows they were heading into SVH and the news
reports say it was on an ILS approach in there. There's an ILS-23
and SVH is plenty long. The description says he ran off the end.

In article ,
Saville wrote:

So it makes me wonder if the Cirrus pilot understood all of that, and the
ramifications of flying a fast plane in the pattern. Not the aircraft's
fault, of course, but as you say - maybe it's not the plane for the casual
pilot.

Many pilots are clueless in the pattern when it comes to following
slower traffic. They have never been taught and do not have the
capability to process the capabilities of their aircraft relative to the
aircraft they are following. I have encountered this numerous times
while flying a 65 hp Aeronca Champ. Which is why I fly a tight, low
pattern. They expect me to be higher, wider and faster, allowing me to
land without encountering near mid-air conditions.

On the other hand, pilots that fly slower airplanes should also be aware
that they do not need to fly patterns the same size as someone in a 747. You
do not need a five mile final in a 152- it does tend to back up everyone
else in the pattern.

Ron Natalie wrote:
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

No word yet if the Cirrus was coming or going but my money is on
going. They say it crashed only 50 feet off the airport but they also
say it was wooded. I haven't been there in some years so I just can't
remember the layout. I believe the open runway is 5-23.


Statesville is less than 3 miles from my field. The ONLY runway there
is 5-23. FlightAware shows they were heading into SVH and the news
reports say it was on an ILS approach in there. There's an ILS-23
and SVH is plenty long. The description says he ran off the end.

Now the scuttlebutt was that he crashed while attempting to circle
to land.

john smith wrote:
Many pilots are clueless in the pattern when it comes to following
slower traffic.

That's because while they were training, they *were* the slower traffic :-)

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 03:07:55 GMT, Jose
wrote in :

The casual pilot will make more errors.

Piloting is serious business. There shouldn't be any casual pilots.

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
On the other hand, pilots that fly slower airplanes should also be aware
that they do not need to fly patterns the same size as someone in a 747.
You do not need a five mile final in a 152- it does tend to back up
everyone else in the pattern.

A lot of it goes back to training. One of the local flight schools from a
towered field teaches B-52 style approaches in their C-172's. That makes
sense for someone who is just attempting his/her first landings, but once
the student has the landing thing figured out, the instructor(s) really,
really need to retrain their students to fly a tighter pattern. They don't.

When they come to my non-towered home field, it makes for a lot of cranky
people in the pattern.

Something that puts a big grin on my face is watching someone at SnF or
Oshkosh *really* fly their airplane in the pattern. The tower asks for a
close tight base and final and the pilot complies, flying a perfectly
coordinated, tight base and short final ending with the airplane rolling out
right on the runway centerline and in position to set the airplane down
exactly where the controller has requested. I love that kind of thing,
regardless of aircraft type.

As opposed to the guy who blunders around, drops to 5' AGL at the runway
threshold with the tower saying "Cessna, fly your airplane 2,000' down the
runway and land on the orange dot". In the meantime, the Cessna is flying
at 5' AGL, wiggling and waggling at minimum airspeed and a half dozen
aircraft are scrambling to maintain adequate spacing behind the bozo who is
flying his Cessna at 45 knots in ground effect.

Viperdoc writes:

On the other hand, pilots that fly slower airplanes should also be aware
that they do not need to fly patterns the same size as someone in a 747. You
do not need a five mile final in a 152- it does tend to back up everyone
else in the pattern.

This is something that confuses me about patterns: Isn't the purpose
of the pattern to keep everyone moving in the same path? Clearly, if
you fly lower or higher than someone else, or inside or outside their
path, you're separated, but isn't there still a risk that you'll
collide at some point?

I always picture aircraft in a pattern following each other in a neat
line, but it sounds like it doesn't work this way in real life, and so
I'm still a bit confused on how they avoid hitting each other if they
are all flying at different altitudes and distances with legs of
different lengths.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Piloting is serious business. There shouldn't be any casual pilots.

True enough, but misses the point. I was being more metaphorical than
anything, but the truth is that it is harder (requires more training,
more alertness, more attention) to fly a fighter mission in hostile
terretory in an F-111 than it does to fly in nice weather from somewhere
to somewhere near in a 172.

It therefore, of necessity, takes =less= of the "right stuff" to do the
aforementioned 172 trip.

A fatal accident can still kill you in either case. But the likelyhood
of carelessness causing a fatal accident is higher in the former case.

This is why most pilots never qualify for that, and most pilots do
qualify for the blue sky rating.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
On the other hand, pilots that fly slower airplanes should also be aware
that they do not need to fly patterns the same size as someone in a 747.
You do not need a five mile final in a 152- it does tend to back up
everyone else in the pattern.

A lot of it goes back to training. One of the local flight schools from a
towered field teaches B-52 style approaches in their C-172's. That makes
sense for someone who is just attempting his/her first landings, but once
the student has the landing thing figured out, the instructor(s) really,
really need to retrain their students to fly a tighter pattern. They
don't.

When they come to my non-towered home field, it makes for a lot of cranky
people in the pattern.

Something that puts a big grin on my face is watching someone at SnF or
Oshkosh *really* fly their airplane in the pattern. The tower asks for a
close tight base and final and the pilot complies, flying a perfectly
coordinated, tight base and short final ending with the airplane rolling
out right on the runway centerline and in position to set the airplane
down exactly where the controller has requested. I love that kind of
thing, regardless of aircraft type.

As opposed to the guy who blunders around, drops to 5' AGL at the runway
threshold with the tower saying "Cessna, fly your airplane 2,000' down the
runway and land on the orange dot". In the meantime, the Cessna is flying
at 5' AGL, wiggling and waggling at minimum airspeed and a half dozen
aircraft are scrambling to maintain adequate spacing behind the bozo who
is flying his Cessna at 45 knots in ground effect.

I had a P51 in the pattern at Oshkosh with a Breezy in front of me. The
tower had me on the same downwind at co-altitude with about a 150kt overtake
and I couldn't get a word in edgewise. (Oshkosh can be a real problem if you
need a quick head's up to ATC about something and can't key the mike for the
traffic noise.
Anyway, I was caught between a rock and a hard place obviously since I
figured if I sliced up the Breezy it would really ding my prop and probably
really **** off the Breezy guy.
I had to alter my downwind drastically or over run the Breezy . I had full
flaps on the airplane, was way behind the power curve, and nibbling with my
CL max carrying about 45 inches and had to do something quick and on my own.
I could see the Breezy guy looking back over his shoulder like I was a T Rex
about to have him for lunch.
I was clear on my right side and altered enough to extend, just as the tower
broke in and asked me why I WAS extending. I told them the guy in the Breezy
was about to have a heart attack or an 11 foot 2 inch Hamilton Standard
24D50 prop up his butt if I didn't extend! :-)
Moral is that in a controlled VFR pattern that's busy, you comply, but never
blindly!!
Dudley Henriques