If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Continential E-225 Experts?
I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched
tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a pre-oiling system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system? I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
"Kelvin Gurney" wrote: I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a Beech 215 84" prop on it. Sounds like a great project! Are there any online pictures? My question concerns installing a pre-oiling system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system? I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable. I'd suggest subscribing to the Bonanza owner's e-mail list. They were a great resouce when I owned my E-225 powered Bonanza. Remember e-225's don't leak, they "mark their territory" |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
"Kelvin Gurney" wrote in message ... I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a pre-oiling system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system? I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable. Kelvin, The E-225 eventually grew into the Continental O-470, which is the same basic engine with many detail improvements. The older O-470 in the 230 HP class such as were found in the earlier Cessna 182's are low compression, run well on mogas, and have proven to be extremely reliable. Except, of course, for the cylinders. The lower end on these is usually good for over three thousand hours but the cylinder assemblies seem to give serious problems after about 1000. They were used in everything from Barons and Cessna 310's down to Ryan Navions and early Bonanzas. It is a pretty much bulletproof engine and there are many available for reasonable prices on the used engine market. Another excellent engine in that category is the derated O-540 Lycoming used in the early Pawnees. They derated it to 235 HP so they could run it on 80 octane fuel. These earlier O-540's are also a bulletproof engine that chugs on forever and are available relatively reasonably priced on the used engine market. Using the E series Continental engines these days is comparable to useing the Lycoming O-290 or O-435 series engines. They are good and were excellent in their day, but the newer engines that have replaced them are at least as durable and a lot easier to find parts for, making them less expensive to overhaul. I say that, and I have an O-290 Lycoming in my hangar for one of my homebuilts and am helping a friend install a Lycoming O-435 into his Bellanca. :-) Highflyer Highflight Aviation Services Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY ) |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Kelvin Gurney wrote:
I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable. Well, I guess if thats your critera, the E-225 should do pretty well for you. One thing that you don't mention is "maintainability". Parts are getting more and more difficult to come by. I overhualed my E-225 almost a decade ago now and its still doing pretty well, but I don't look forward to the next overhaul. Parts are being harder and harder to come by. Knowlegeable shops are also becomming scarce (which may not be a problem for you if you are converting it to experimental status). The same story with your prop. Its a great prop for that engine (especially if you've got 88" blades on it). It also is orphaned, though, and parts are almost non-existant. Before you commit to this prop, I suggest you do a search for pitch change bearings. If you can find them, hang onto your wallet! Unfortunately, because of the splined crankshaft on the E-225 you've got a choice of this prop or a Hartzel (12v-20-7e plus a few other models). The hartzel has several ADs on it and several other operational issues. -- Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" (E-225 powered, Hartzel driven) Hood River, OR |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Dan,
I don't have much yet. The Smith Aviation web site has a little information and no pictures about the Tundra Boss, (Bushmaster on their website). The reason for the name change is they didn't realize Bushmaster was already being used. The Tundra Boss is a new kit for them so they are still figuring out pricing, etc. Looks like gross will be in the 2800lb range, 7ft cargo area with rear seats removed, able to take larger engines, (360's 540's, etc). Their claim to fame is their Supercub kit and they have a lot of pictures of that kit. With those you can see the quality of their workmanship. I have started an photo album at SuperCub.org Thanks for the reply, Kelvin "Dan Nafe" wrote in message ... In article , "Kelvin Gurney" wrote: I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a Beech 215 84" prop on it. Sounds like a great project! Are there any online pictures? My question concerns installing a pre-oiling system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system? I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable. I'd suggest subscribing to the Bonanza owner's e-mail list. They were a great resouce when I owned my E-225 powered Bonanza. Remember e-225's don't leak, they "mark their territory" |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Frank, Highflyer,
I am aware of the parts issue. But so far I've been able to find what I've needed at an reasonable price, (except for motor mounts, still looking for those). I've gotten a rebuilt Beech 215 prop with zero hours for $5,500.00 which I think is a good deal. I've picked up an E225-8 with 500 hours since factory re-manufacture that has been sitting around for a while and it cost less than what a 360, or 540 core would have, (I've had it look at by a 3rd party shop and it needs top end work). That doesn't bother me because as you say, the weak part of this engine is the cylinders. ECi makes a version of O-470 cylinders that fit and they have addressed the weakness. So I think I am good there. I have been told the Continental engineers were concerned about 225hp in the light weight case and crank so when they added 80 lbs of metal to the crank and case and called it an O-470. But if I should mess up this engine or wang the prop playing in the bush, getting replacement parts on a short notice would be VERY expensive. So I keeping my eyes open for a second Beech prop and am looking to set up a pre-oiler on this engine to address those issues. Thanks for the reply, Kelvin "Highflyer" wrote in message ... "Kelvin Gurney" wrote in message ... I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a pre-oiling system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system? I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable. Kelvin, The E-225 eventually grew into the Continental O-470, which is the same basic engine with many detail improvements. The older O-470 in the 230 HP class such as were found in the earlier Cessna 182's are low compression, run well on mogas, and have proven to be extremely reliable. Except, of course, for the cylinders. The lower end on these is usually good for over three thousand hours but the cylinder assemblies seem to give serious problems after about 1000. They were used in everything from Barons and Cessna 310's down to Ryan Navions and early Bonanzas. It is a pretty much bulletproof engine and there are many available for reasonable prices on the used engine market. Another excellent engine in that category is the derated O-540 Lycoming used in the early Pawnees. They derated it to 235 HP so they could run it on 80 octane fuel. These earlier O-540's are also a bulletproof engine that chugs on forever and are available relatively reasonably priced on the used engine market. Using the E series Continental engines these days is comparable to using the Lycoming O-290 or O-435 series engines. They are good and were excellent in their day, but the newer engines that have replaced them are at least as durable and a lot easier to find parts for, making them less expensive to overhaul. I say that, and I have an O-290 Lycoming in my hangar for one of my homebuilts and am helping a friend install a Lycoming O-435 into his Bellanca. :-) Highflyer Highflight Aviation Services Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY ) |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Dan Nafe wrote:
I'd suggest subscribing to the Bonanza owner's e-mail list. They were a great resouce when I owned my E-225 powered Bonanza. Remember e-225's don't leak, they "mark their territory" Plenty of E-225's in Navions along with it's more modern cousin the IO-470. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Kelvin,
The E-225 Continental is a hot running engine. The cylinders do not have the fin density that the newer Continentals or Lycomings do. Without very good baffling the CHTs will run high and cylinder life will fall far short of TBO. Probably not an issue for you in Alaska :^) Also the E series continentals have many more mating surfaces, gaskets and external oil plumbing than the more modern engines. If the engine case halves were machined during overhaul and the accessory case fitup was not addressed either by relocating the dowel pin holes or by use of offset dowl pins IT WILL LEAK. In fact no matter how hard you try to make an E series oil tight the thermal expansion differences between the aluminum case, magnesium accessory case and steel oil pumbing parts will ultimately leak in a few hundred hours. Cold Alaskan starts followed by normal operating temps could be quite a swing and cause these parts to leak sooner. The E-225 has a splined crankshaft which limits you to only a few props. The vintage Hartzells are subject to costly and timely AD inspections and the AD free versions are much more expensive than a similarly sized flange mount prop. Also the E-225 achieves its HP increase over the earlier E-185 through a more agressive cam and increased carburation using a specific variant of the Bendix PS5-C pressure carburetor. This is nothing more than a mechanical throttle-body fuel injection device. Very reliable and smooth running with the spider type intake manifold used on the E series engine. The only downside is service. The number of shops knowledgable and equipped to service this carb are dwindling. Of course as an experimental you can use a conventional float bowl carb from an O-470 or convert to fuel injection using an RS5 or the newer RSA5 servo, fuel spider and injectors. The crowded accessory case area is another thing to be concerned about. There are only 2 accessory pads available. The choice of starter is limited to either the gear driven Bendix Eclipse E-80 or the Bendix direct drive. The generator is crowded too limiting you to either the 35A and 50A variety or the expensive Jasco/Skytronic 50A alternator conversion. Finally there is the parts availability issue. As mentioned before there are many of these engines in Navions and early Beech Bonanzas. As these engines get swapped out for newer conversions their cores become available for reasonable cost. However certain consumables like U 0.010 thrust bearings and oil pump parts are no longer being made and command very high prices. Kelvin Gurney wrote: I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a pre-oiling system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system? I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Are There Any P-47 Experts Out There Too? | Schlomo Lipchitz | Naval Aviation | 10 | February 15th 05 03:06 AM |
PIREP--CO Experts low level carbon monoxide detector | Jay Honeck | Piloting | 10 | December 3rd 04 11:21 AM |
aero-domains for homebuilt experts | secura | Home Built | 0 | June 26th 04 07:11 AM |
Aircraft Id needed from newsgp experts! | RGP | Military Aviation | 1 | January 1st 04 07:15 PM |
Instrument PIC logging for the experts | Koopas Ly | Piloting | 20 | December 1st 03 06:48 PM |