Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

On Nov 27, 10:04 am, Newps wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Nov 26, 7:37 pm, Newps wrote:

Since labor can strike as long as they
want and the employers can't replace them ([...])

Since when?

Oh yea, your a controller!

Yes, but that's irrelevant.

Its relevant in that the President of the United State of America
authorized the strike to be broken. That is not typically an option
for employers. Certainly not a typical situation.

-Robert

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:35 -0800 (PST), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


Did you just stomp your feet?


He pouted. I swear... G

On Nov 27, 8:43 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a member
of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members. In fact,
the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think your point
is countered.

Robert, you rascal ! I love your simplistic answers. Lets take a look
at things that didnt exist before organized labor; Child labor laws,
healt care benifits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance, paid vacation,
benifits packages, retirement, DC plans,overtime and the list goes
on................ If you had a great career with any of these benies
you can thank organized labor
FB



-Robert

Another aspect of the work environment that organized labor is
responsible for is the better treatment of non unionized workers.

Years ago young managers were told in no uncertain terms they had to
treat their workers well so as to make the protections unions provided
unnecessary. It really was a part of first line supervisor training in
some industries, like the high tech ones in the northeast.

I don't know if that is still going on. I do know labor turnover is a
significant factor in rating supervisor skills (those here with profit/
loss responsibility surely know how expensive it is to bring an
employee up to effective levels of contribution, and that is a cost
that is repeated every time someone new is hired).

Sometimes, though, people who are consistantly underperforming, if
training doesn't help, need to be discharged, and that can't be done
with tenure protected teachers in public school systems for example.
Hey, some of us in colleges need to be kick restarted from time to
time, for that matter.



..



workersOn Nov 27, 9:43 pm, "F. Baum" wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:43 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:



Many of us have a great successful career without every being a member
of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members. In fact,
the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think your point
is countered.

Robert, you rascal ! I love your simplistic answers. Lets take a look
at things that didnt exist before organized labor; Child labor laws,
healt care benifits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance, paid vacation,
benifits packages, retirement, DC plans,overtime and the list goes
on................ If you had a great career with any of these benies
you can thank organized labor
FB





-Robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article ,
"F. Baum" wrote:

On Nov 27, 8:43 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a member
of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members. In fact,
the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think your point
is countered.

Robert, you rascal ! I love your simplistic answers. Lets take a look
at things that didnt exist before organized labor; Child labor laws,
healt care benifits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance, paid vacation,
benifits packages, retirement, DC plans,overtime and the list goes
on................ If you had a great career with any of these benies
you can thank organized labor
FB

You are assuming that these "benies" exist because of organized
labor.

Question: what laws would continue to exist if unions went away
and what laws would go away?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On 2007-11-26 09:38:31 -0800, "Gatt" said:


"Panic" wrote in message
...
Yeah, and what do many non-pilots don't fully understand is that pilots
get paid for the hours they fly...not for the hours they work. In an 8
hour workday they may only get 4 hours of flight pay. Flight planning,
preflight, postflight, etc are not paid hours of work. $22.00/hour pay
rate (flight time) can translate to $11.00 an hour for actual working
time.

I'm curious as to why the airline pilots haven't all gone on strike to
demand better pay. Clearly, they can't be easily replaced or the airlines
wouldn't be scraping the bottom of the barrel for new hires. I learned
about supply/demand in Economics 101 but I'm sure the airline executives
know exactly what they're doing.

Right now it is the unions that are in the way of new hires getting
better pay. As union contracts are re-negotiated you will start to see
higher starting pay. For now, the airlines are making do with signing
bonuses or even referral bonuses.



--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2007-11-26 08:56:00 -0800, Larry Dighera said:


More Evidence of the Pilot Shortage

PILOT SHORTAGE HITS REGIONALS
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#196655)
American Eagle, the regional subsidiary of American Airlines, has
trimmed flights from its winter schedule in part because it
doesn't have enough pilots. "It's one of several reasons, but that
does play into it," Eagle spokeswoman Andrea Huguely told the Fort
Worth Star-Telegram
(http://www.star-telegram.com/busines...y/322928.html). "The
pilots are crucial, and without them, the planes don't fly." Eagle
is one of several airlines that has cut minimum experience
requirements by two-thirds to 500 hours to attract more recruits.
According to the newspaper, Trans States Airlines, which operates
a regional service for American under the name American
Connection, briefly lowered its experience requirement to 250
hours during the summer. Although no one seems to deny the value
of experience, industry spokesmen contacted by the newspaper
seemed to agree that safety is not being seriously compromised.

Safety is not being seriously compromised, but the airlines are
shutting off the supply of new pilots. You have to be an instructor for
two years to make a new flight instructor. There are no new pilots
without flight instructors. But airlines are grabbing flight
instructors before they have been working for two years, so the pool of
flight instructors is shrinking very rapidly. It has become so bad that
places like Embry-Riddle have been offering huge incentives for
instructors to stay beyond their 600 hour commitment. Those who are
willing to stay are given a salary of $42,000 a year plus a full
benefits package.



--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"F. Baum" wrote:

On Nov 27, 8:43 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a member
of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members. In fact,
the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think your point
is countered.

Robert, you rascal ! I love your simplistic answers. Lets take a look
at things that didnt exist before organized labor; Child labor laws,
healt care benifits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance, paid vacation,
benifits packages, retirement, DC plans,overtime and the list goes
on................ If you had a great career with any of these benies
you can thank organized labor
FB

You are assuming that these "benies" exist because of organized
labor.

Question: what laws would continue to exist if unions went away
and what laws would go away?

And which would have evolved naturally with increased productivity and
increased expertise in management (that had been going on for a couple
hundred years). That's out of Baum's mental grasp, unfortunately.
--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

"Gatt" wrote in message
...

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
news:a3d92f7a-fd7f-4bcb-bcc7-


And without a union, employees are in a similar situation.

Again that is the myth that labor tries to put out there.

Just think, if all those Chinese coolies had organized labor, there'd
still be no Union Pacific.


There would be no Wal Mart either.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 10:48 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

And without a union, employees are in a similar situation.

Again that is the myth that labor tries to put out there.

No, it isn't

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a member
of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members. In fact,
the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think your point
is countered.


But not all of you. Many non union management people have been screwed to
the bone, while union employees in the same company have thrived. Airlines
are a terrific example.