Metric Instruments?

I'm trying to do my homework on importing a glider from Germany to the
U.S. Shipping and registration issues shouldn't be a problem, but I'm
curious about the flight instruments. Can I use the metric instruments
in the states? I'm kind of used to metric instruments and I think that
when doing most of my flight calculations, I would prefer to have
metric instruments except for maybe adding a feet altimeter for ATC and
airspace purposes. Does anyone know if there's any problem with this?
I don't really want to have to replace all of my instruments. Any
experience you can share would be very helpful. Thank you.

AFSax wrote:
I'm trying to do my homework on importing a glider from Germany to the
U.S. Shipping and registration issues shouldn't be a problem, but I'm
curious about the flight instruments. Can I use the metric instruments
in the states? I'm kind of used to metric instruments and I think that
when doing most of my flight calculations, I would prefer to have
metric instruments except for maybe adding a feet altimeter for ATC and
airspace purposes. Does anyone know if there's any problem with this?
I don't really want to have to replace all of my instruments. Any
experience you can share would be very helpful. Thank you.


I know of at least one commercially operated glider (an ASW-24 in
Parowan, UT) that's eqipped with metric instruments. That doesn't mean
it's legal, but I strongly suspect it is based on that evidence.

Jeremy

AFSax wrote:
I'm trying to do my homework on importing a glider from Germany to the
U.S. Shipping and registration issues shouldn't be a problem, but I'm
curious about the flight instruments. Can I use the metric instruments
in the states? I'm kind of used to metric instruments and I think that
when doing most of my flight calculations, I would prefer to have
metric instruments except for maybe adding a feet altimeter for ATC and
airspace purposes. Does anyone know if there's any problem with this?
I don't really want to have to replace all of my instruments. Any
experience you can share would be very helpful. Thank you.


I know of at least one commercially operated glider (an ASW-24 in
Parowan, UT) that's eqipped with metric instruments. That doesn't mean
it's legal, but I strongly suspect it is based on that evidence.

Jeremy

I don't see anything to indicate that it wouldn't be legal to stick
with the metric instruments as long as it meets the type certificate
requirements, which it seems to. I will install a second TSO'd feet
altimeter since charts and everything in the states is in feet, but I
don't see why I'd have to change anything else. I know of at least one
YAK airplane that has retained all of its original instruments except
for a new feet altimeter and a transponder. If anyone has any other
experiences let me know.

Adam

At 12:18 22 August 2005, Afsax wrote:
I don't see anything to indicate that it wouldn't be
legal to stick
with the metric instruments as long as it meets the
type certificate
requirements, which it seems to. I will install a
second TSO'd feet
altimeter since charts and everything in the states
is in feet, but I
don't see why I'd have to change anything else. I
know of at least one
YAK airplane that has retained all of its original
instruments except
for a new feet altimeter and a transponder. If anyone
has any other
experiences let me know.

Adam


Except, perhaps, the ASI - so as not to confuse 50
kph with 50 knots in the heat of the moment !

This has, I am told, happened - with unfortunate consequences.

I have imported a glider from Germany (to the UK) -
and replaced the ASI and altimeter only - but left
the fancy push/pull variometer and the (absolutely
brilliant) Winter 'Sollfahrtgeber' entirely alone -
with, absolutely, no problems.

sta13nski.

Stanford Korwin wrote:
At 12:18 22 August 2005, Afsax wrote:

I don't see anything to indicate that it wouldn't be
legal to stick
with the metric instruments as long as it meets the
type certificate
requirements, which it seems to. I will install a
second TSO'd feet
altimeter since charts and everything in the states
is in feet, but I
don't see why I'd have to change anything else. I
know of at least one
YAK airplane that has retained all of its original
instruments except
for a new feet altimeter and a transponder. If anyone
has any other
experiences let me know.

Adam



Except, perhaps, the ASI - so as not to confuse 50
kph with 50 knots in the heat of the moment !

This has, I am told, happened - with unfortunate consequences.

I have imported a glider from Germany (to the UK) -
and replaced the ASI and altimeter only - but left
the fancy push/pull variometer and the (absolutely
brilliant) Winter 'Sollfahrtgeber' entirely alone -
with, absolutely, no problems.

sta13nski.





I really wouldn't worry about the ASI. I fly my Open Cirrus (in the UK)
on metric instruments. Its stall speed is lower than most glass gliders
at (book figure) 63 kph. If I try to fly the approach at 50 kph,
mistaking this for kt, I will realise my mistake in plenty of time to
correct the stall. I must say that because the difference is nearly 100%
between kt and kph I've never had a moment's confusion. I can't imagine
anyone having this problem on the launch either, as the aircraft won't
be flying at the 55 kph mark.

However, mph and kt seems to me like a recipe for disaster if you fly an
approach at the kt speed using an mph ASI.

In article . com,
"AFSax" wrote:

I'm trying to do my homework on importing a glider from Germany to the
U.S. Shipping and registration issues shouldn't be a problem, but I'm
curious about the flight instruments. Can I use the metric instruments
in the states? I'm kind of used to metric instruments and I think that
when doing most of my flight calculations, I would prefer to have
metric instruments except for maybe adding a feet altimeter for ATC and
airspace purposes. Does anyone know if there's any problem with this?
I don't really want to have to replace all of my instruments. Any
experience you can share would be very helpful. Thank you.

When I imported my glider, I was told by the DAR that the metric
instruments were not legal. I took him at his word.

--
Take out the airplane for reply

Thanks for the input! I'm not really worried about flying with a
metric ASI since that's what I'm already used to from learning to soar
here in Germany. I think I'd probably have a harder time adjusting to
flying with a Knots ASI, but it wouldn't really be that much of an
adjustment, just have to learn the important speeds again in knots.
I'll talk to the FAA maintenance inspector that I know back home and
see what he knows about the legality of instruments in a sailplane.
The U.S. type certificate for the Phoebus says it must conform to the
German type certificate which states that the glider must have an ASI
and an altimeter, but the limits specified in the orginal German type
certificate are all metric...go figure! Thanks everybody for your help
and maybe I'll get to meet a few people when I get back to the states
and start flying there again...although I don't know exactly where in
the states I'll be going yet.

Adam

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:02:37 +0100, Chris Reed wrote:

I really wouldn't worry about the ASI. I fly my Open Cirrus (in the UK)
on metric instruments. Its stall speed is lower than most glass gliders
at (book figure) 63 kph. If I try to fly the approach at 50 kph,
mistaking this for kt, I will realise my mistake in plenty of time to
correct the stall. I must say that because the difference is nearly 100%
between kt and kph I've never had a moment's confusion. I can't imagine
anyone having this problem on the launch either, as the aircraft won't
be flying at the 55 kph mark.

Agreed. I've done virtually all my gliding in the UK using kts/ft
instruments. However, in 2003 I visited the Wasserkruppe and flew there
with no problems. Check ride was in an ASK-21. The ASI was the same model
with the same coloured snake but a different numeric scale. My club has a
couple of ASK-21s which I fly fairly regularly, so I know the sounds and
where the needle should point so I had no problems. They then gave me a
flight in an ASK-23, which I'd not flown before, but this time I was
briefed with the right speeds, so again no problem.

I was more bothered flying a kts/ft ASK-21 in America than I was flying
the German metric one because for some reason known only to history and
the FAA, American ASIs are upside down: at cruising speed the needle is
straight down, not upright as it should be.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

If you're happy with Feet and Knots, the additional
costs of a couple of instruments, after shipping from
Europe are minor.
Why not haggle the price down a bit, and leave them
with the seller, use discount to buy new ASI and altimeter


At 21:06 22 August 2005, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:02:37 +0100, Chris Reed wrote:

I really wouldn't worry about the ASI. I fly my Open
Cirrus (in the UK)
on metric instruments. Its stall speed is lower than
most glass gliders
at (book figure) 63 kph. If I try to fly the approach
at 50 kph,
mistaking this for kt, I will realise my mistake in
plenty of time to
correct the stall. I must say that because the difference
is nearly 100%
between kt and kph I've never had a moment's confusion.
I can't imagine
anyone having this problem on the launch either, as
the aircraft won't
be flying at the 55 kph mark.

Agreed. I've done virtually all my gliding in the UK
using kts/ft
instruments. However, in 2003 I visited the Wasserkruppe
and flew there
with no problems. Check ride was in an ASK-21. The
ASI was the same model
with the same coloured snake but a different numeric
scale. My club has a
couple of ASK-21s which I fly fairly regularly, so
I know the sounds and
where the needle should point so I had no problems.
They then gave me a
flight in an ASK-23, which I'd not flown before, but
this time I was
briefed with the right speeds, so again no problem.

I was more bothered flying a kts/ft ASK-21 in America
than I was flying
the German metric one because for some reason known
only to history and
the FAA, American ASIs are upside down: at cruising
speed the needle is
straight down, not upright as it should be.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |