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#41
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"Martin" wrote in message om... Chip youre a good man, many controllers (well the ones I know here in the northeast at least) tend to just say "f**king pilot" and move on While we are (at least tangentially) on the subject of good controllers... I was picking my way through a line of thunderstorms west of Huntsville a few weeks ago. I have stormscope, but no radar. In and out of IMC, and the stormscope is starting to look like a video game screen. The controller (Memphis Center, I believe) was unbelievably helpful. He was working a dozen or so planes, offering quick deviations left and right, while at the same time responding to calls for info from pilots like me. I ended up (with his blessing, of course) descending 10,000 feet in steep turns to avoid a storm ahead of me, turning 50 degrees north to go under the clouds in a gap he and I agreed was there, and was past the weather in ten minutes. If I wanted to commend his work to his supervisor, how would I do so? He did a great job - every handoff was accompanied by "123.45, Great job today! Thanks" Michael |
#42
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Chip Jones wrote: "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message ... [snipped] Note to Chip! Chip, your name rings a bell...didn't you have a rather elaborate ATC website { I could have the wrong person but your sector mention after your name [ZTL] rings a bell ... as well as a secondary website dealing with flight safety [read: crash] investigation issues? Not me. :-) Naturally instead of my doing the legwork first and digging it up, I relied on memory [faulty in this case..] and sure enough, wrong person, this person was out of Chicago and not the Atlanta region. Besides the real-deal [and like others here who duly hold FAA tickets, presently or back when...] I enjoy the flight sims inclusive of ATC sims. My comments as to the adjunctive value of flight sims to the real deal is fairly well known and I was/am one of those who tend to get away from the 'it's a game' theme or mind-set of flight sims and prefer, if you will, the flight sims as an adjunctive learning tool to the real McCoy...the limitations [big bucks motion sims] notwithstanding. It struck me however that not only are flight sims utilized by the commercial folks and Uncle Sam [et al] to boot in an adjunctive capacity but for some 12 to 16 weeks of initial professional ATC training, ATC folks go to Oklahoma City [so I've read anyway] and use Doc Wesson's ATC 'SIMULATION' programs for their initial professional training. In any event, I emailed this controller and he had an excellent website tutorial on real-deal ATC and I recall commenting that I personally would not want that kind of daily pressure cooker responsibility or nightmares about 'deals' and making instant judgment calls in an often hectic ['chaotic' atmosphere perhaps at some of the larger airports] atmosphere that can effect so many lives. I daresay that the ATC brethren perhaps have a high incidence, inter alia, of stomach ulcers! Whew! I respect their profession and give them much credit but it's a profession that I personally would not want to perform. I'll leave the manipulation(s) of those separation issues and emergency actions or the proverbial "string of pearls" goal to those professionals who can do it and do it well. But, bottom line, I'm sure glad they are there! Doc Tony Chip, ZTL ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#43
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In a seagoing context (ships are bigger than airplanes), when you turn away
from crossing traffic you present the side of the ship to the intruder...lots of vulnerability. When you turn toward the crossing traffic you present a smaller target for a shorter time. Bob Gardner "blanche cohen" wrote in message ... Um....Bob & Chip...could you explain in more detail the reason for the "turn into traffic"? I'm having problems visualizing it. And I have the most horrible feeling that someday I'll run in the same problem and want to understand it. thanks |
#44
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"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote: Chip Jones wrote: "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message ... [snipped] Note to Chip! Chip, your name rings a bell...didn't you have a rather elaborate ATC website { I could have the wrong person but your sector mention after your name [ZTL] rings a bell ... as well as a secondary website dealing with flight safety [read: crash] investigation issues? Not me. :-) Naturally instead of my doing the legwork first and digging it up, I relied on memory [faulty in this case..] and sure enough, wrong person, this person was out of Chicago and not the Atlanta region. Besides the real-deal [and like others here who duly hold FAA tickets, presently or back when...] I enjoy the flight sims inclusive of ATC sims. My comments as to the adjunctive value of flight sims to the real deal is fairly well known and I was/am one of those who tend to get away from the 'it's a game' theme or mind-set of flight sims and prefer, if you will, the flight sims as an adjunctive learning tool to the real McCoy...the limitations [big bucks motion sims] notwithstanding. It struck me however that not only are flight sims utilized by the commercial folks and Uncle Sam [et al] to boot in an adjunctive capacity but for some 12 to 16 weeks of initial professional ATC training, ATC folks go to Oklahoma City [so I've read anyway] and use Doc Wesson's ATC 'SIMULATION' programs for their initial professional training. In any event, I emailed this controller and he had an excellent website tutorial on real-deal ATC and I recall commenting that I personally would not want that kind of daily pressure cooker responsibility or nightmares about 'deals' and making instant judgment calls in an often hectic ['chaotic' atmosphere perhaps at some of the larger airports] atmosphere that can effect so many lives. I daresay that the ATC brethren perhaps have a high incidence, inter alia, of stomach ulcers! Whew! I respect their profession and give them much credit but it's a profession that I personally would not want to perform. I'll leave the manipulation(s) of those separation issues and emergency actions or the proverbial "string of pearls" goal to those professionals who can do it and do it well. But, bottom line, I'm sure glad they are there! Doc Tony ADDENDUM.... I suppose I should add a qualifier here lest I get an email to the tune of 'Hey, Doc, flying, be it a 152 or a Trip' 7 is 'responsibility', yes?' and most assuredly true enough but please note that in my comments about ATC the operative words were 'daily pressure' and that is the part that I would just as soon do without in terms of such 'daily' pressures being the means of my livelihood. Explains too, no doubt, why I'm not a commercial ATP pilot by profession although I'll say this and recognizing that both carry an enormous amount of responsibility : If I had the proverbial magic wand and could wave same and thus have the requisite savvy and experience for 'either' the ATP ticket and gig --versus-- an ATC controller at a 'major' hub, I'd probably choose the ATP ticket because [I'll no doubt hear about this! :-( ...] given the choice between flight management monitoring once at cruise altitude with a Triple 7 --versus-- sitting in the hot seat at 24/7 JFK, LAX, ATL and the other pressure cooker TRACONS and related ATC heavy traffic get-it-done assignments, I'd take the flight deck of a Jumbo or Triple 7. I mean you can get 'some' break and there is the right seat FO to boot! But ATC every day with NO mandated FAA time-off/no-fly regs [for the ATP], nahhhhh. Doc Tony Chip, ZTL ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#45
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Chip Jones wrote: I disagree with you here. I do not use the phraseology "immediately" unless I am worried about an imminent collision. In 13 years of ATC, I have used "immediately" probably less than twenty times. In order for the baron to slip behind the VFR, he did not need to turn 90 degrees, he only needed to turn 45 to 50 degrees right. I assumed that combining "immediately" with a suggested 80 degree right turn, there was the highest probability of a successful outcome for the Baron. In the event, the left turn of 20 or 30 degrees that the Baron pilot executed in the event was insufficient to keep his target from merging with the intruder. Chip, ZTL I guess had he been above 10,000 you could have used the merging target provisions of the 7110.65? |
#46
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"Chip Jones" wrote:
The other day, I had an air traffic situation ... Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but this has been a great thread. Always interesting to hear things from the ATC point of view. BTW, Chip, do you know Don Brown? I believe he also works ZTL. As a rookie pilot just venturing into the wide world of ATC, I've learned a lot from his "Say Again?" columns at AvWeb. -Scott |
#47
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"Capt. Doug" wrote in message ... While your scenario may be right on the money, let me point out that some pilots will claim to be IMC even when there isn't a cloud in the sky. Their reasoning is that by doing this, it keep the onus of seperation on the controller. We both know this isn't quite how it works, but then again, a chimpanzee flew Mercury 7. A chimpanzee did not fly Mercury 7. The chimpanzee "Ham" flew on Mercury-Redstone 2 and the chimpanzee "Enos" flew on Mercury-Atlas 5. Mercury-Atlas 7 was flown by Scott Carpenter. |
#48
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wrote in message ... I guess had he been above 10,000 you could have used the merging target provisions of the 7110.65? How so? Merging target procedures apply to radar identified aircraft. |
#49
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In article ,
Snowbird wrote: If you *believed* that he was really in the soup, why not just pretend the VFR target was a lost-comms IFR guy and gotten the Baron out of the way? Just to point out here, Chip isn't working the "VFR" target, he I know, but it worries me that just because the VFR-in-IMC guy is breaking the rules, the controller is left in a position where due to regulations and habit/mindset he is unable to resolve[*] a traffic situation that would otherwise be routine. In software this is one of those "can't happen" cases. You "can't" have a guy in IMC that's not on an IFR flightplan converging with an IFR plane. So the regs don't allow for it and anyone evaluating the situation tries to make it fit into one of the other categories instead. [*] obviously no metal was bent here, but the Baron used his emergency authority to deviate from his clearance trying to get out of the way. -- Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/ |
#50
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wrote in message ... "5-1-8 Merging Target Procedures a. Except while they are established in a holding pattern, apply merging target procedures to all radar identified: 1. Aircraft at 10,000 feet and above. 2. Turbojet aircraft regardless of altitude." I'm familiar with the paragraph, you haven't answered my question. |
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