M20 Air/Oil separator

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:CyfTc.304529$XM6.124022@attbi_s53...
Atlas just got his oil/air separator installed today. (For those who may
not know, Atlas is our '74 Cherokee Pathfinder, so-named because he can
lift
literally anything we can fit inside!)

We picked this new accessory up at OSH '04, after much debate. (It's a
helluva lot of money for what looks like a welded tin can.) The clincher
(besides the nice clean belly) is that I'll be able to run a full 12
quarts
of oil in our Lycoming O-540, rather than the 8.5 quarts we could hold
before. (Atlas would puke out the four extra quarts, if added.)

It seems logical to assume that more oil in the engine equals cleaner oil
to
all engine parts, at all times. This seems like a very good thing,
indeed.

Anyone else got one of these things? Are there any "gotchas" to watch out
for, or are they as bullet-proof as they seem?


I installed one on my TR-182 which had an incredibly messy belly. It did a
great job, almost completely getting rid of the mess.

I have no idea about the volume argument, but empirically it did not happen
on my plane. The TIO-540 has an 8 qt capacity. Anything over 6.5 quarts gets
blown out, before and after the M-20 went in.

Michael

Gene,
Thanks for the education. One old wive's tale put to rest as far
as I'm concerned.
Joe Schneider
Cherokee 8437R

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 08:19:12 -0500, "JJS" jschneider@REMOVE
SOCKSpldi.net wrote:

From what I've read here on Rec. Av. * the downside to these oil
separators is that they may also return the moisture, acids, and
other
snip
M-20 begs to differ....

http://www.m-20turbos.com/separator_facts.htm

JJS wrote;

Gene,
Thanks for the education. One old wive's tale put to rest as far
as I'm concerned.

The fact that a manufacturer claims something is not necessarily an
indication that it's true. I would think that independent tests would
be the way to figure this out.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004
..

I have no idea about the volume argument, but empirically it did not
happen
on my plane. The TIO-540 has an 8 qt capacity. Anything over 6.5 quarts
gets
blown out, before and after the M-20 went in.

This doesn't make sense to me.

A) Why would your TIO-540 blow everything except 6.5 quarts, while my O-540
would settle at 8?

B) Why would any oil "blow over" at all with the air/oil separator
installed?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:2IFYc.3300$_g7.2378@attbi_s52...
I have no idea about the volume argument, but empirically it did not
happen
on my plane. The TIO-540 has an 8 qt capacity. Anything over 6.5 quarts
gets
blown out, before and after the M-20 went in.

This doesn't make sense to me.

A) Why would your TIO-540 blow everything except 6.5 quarts, while my
O-540
would settle at 8?

My engine only holds 8. I believe yours holds quite a bit more.



B) Why would any oil "blow over" at all with the air/oil separator
installed?

I can't explain this one. I know oil/air seperator's clain to stop blow by,
but at least in my plane, the level stays at 6.5. Just empiracal data.



--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

A) Why would your TIO-540 blow everything except 6.5 quarts, while my
O-540
would settle at 8?

My engine only holds 8. I believe yours holds quite a bit more.

What??? A turbo-charged O-540 holds only 8 quarts of oil?

I thought a turbo-charged engine ran hotter, and therefore needed more oil
for lubrication and cooling? My normally aspirated, cool-running O-540
holds 13 quarts!

B) Why would any oil "blow over" at all with the air/oil separator
installed?

I can't explain this one. I know oil/air seperator's clain to stop blow
by,
but at least in my plane, the level stays at 6.5. Just empiracal data.

What the heck is the point of having an air/oil separator if it's still
blowing the oil overboard?

I'd have the installation checked, cuz something sure sounds amiss...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Didn't we go through this already. More sump capacity doesn't provide "more
lubrication and cooling". You noted this yourself when you installed the
separator and the oil temp was unchanged.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:QXcZc.80369$9d6.21156@attbi_s54...
A) Why would your TIO-540 blow everything except 6.5 quarts, while my
O-540
would settle at 8?

My engine only holds 8. I believe yours holds quite a bit more.

What??? A turbo-charged O-540 holds only 8 quarts of oil?

I thought a turbo-charged engine ran hotter, and therefore needed more oil
for lubrication and cooling? My normally aspirated, cool-running O-540
holds 13 quarts!

B) Why would any oil "blow over" at all with the air/oil separator
installed?

I can't explain this one. I know oil/air seperator's clain to stop blow
by,
but at least in my plane, the level stays at 6.5. Just empiracal data.

What the heck is the point of having an air/oil separator if it's still
blowing the oil overboard?

I'd have the installation checked, cuz something sure sounds amiss...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Didn't we go through this already. More sump capacity doesn't provide
"more
lubrication and cooling". You noted this yourself when you installed the
separator and the oil temp was unchanged.

Actually, I read all the posts in that thread, and concluded that no one
could prove anything one way or the other.

As for the oil temperature read-out being unchanged, I guess I wouldn't
expect it to read cooler at the probe, assuming the oil cooler was working
properly to begin with. With more oil, however, the system may be "working
less hard" to achieve that same temperature.

But I quite honestly don't know if that's what's really happening.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I concluded that you proved it! If the oil is cooler it should read cooler
everywhere. I don't understand what you mean by "the system working less
hard". The pump is working the same and every other part is static. I can
tell you that in a MU-2 there is no mearsurable difference in temp with
differing oil levels. I can tell you that in a Turbo Lance that there is no
measureable difference in temp with different oil levels. I can tell you
that in my GT-1 race car that there is no measureable difference in oil temp
with different oil levels (and we varied them from 5qts to 12qts). The
bottom line is that there is no difference in temp with differing oil levels
as long as they are not so low that the pump pickup sucks air or so high
that the crank makes frequent contact with the oil in the sump.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:8MmZc.270376$eM2.58038@attbi_s51...
Didn't we go through this already. More sump capacity doesn't provide
"more
lubrication and cooling". You noted this yourself when you installed
the
separator and the oil temp was unchanged.

Actually, I read all the posts in that thread, and concluded that no one
could prove anything one way or the other.

As for the oil temperature read-out being unchanged, I guess I wouldn't
expect it to read cooler at the probe, assuming the oil cooler was working
properly to begin with. With more oil, however, the system may be
"working
less hard" to achieve that same temperature.

But I quite honestly don't know if that's what's really happening.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Mike Rapoport wrote:

Didn't we go through this already. More sump capacity doesn't provide "more
lubrication and cooling". You noted this yourself when you installed the
separator and the oil temp was unchanged.

Discussing it doesn't resolve it. I agree it doesn't provide more
lubrication, but I've yet to see any credible evidence of the affect on
cooling. I believe it helps, you don't believe it helps, but I don't
think either of us has any data to prove one way or the other.


Matt