position and hold at an angle

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jose wrote:

A few months ago there was a discussion here about positioning on the
runway at an angle to better see traffic from the rear while awaiting
takeoff clearance, and I opined in the face of dissent by Steven
McNicoll that it was a good idea.

I had a chance to fly a 172 while I was out west and was unable to see
any better that way from a Skyhawk, which was the OP's aircraft. I
still think it makes sense to angle a Cherokee, but a 172 might as well
be straight on.


You can do what taildragger pilots are taught (at least the older ones)
and do a 360 to scan the pattern prior to takeoff.


Where are older taildragger pilots taught to do a 360 to scan the pattern
prior to takeoff when instructed to position and hold? Why is this taught?

The precise position and angle need to be varied, according to individual
characteristics.

http://www.tagpilotsupply.com/index....ROD&ProdID=312

In article ,
Jose wrote:
A few months ago there was a discussion here about positioning on the
runway at an angle to better see traffic from the rear while awaiting
takeoff clearance, and I opined in the face of dissent by Steven
McNicoll that it was a good idea.

I guess I'm not sure that I see the problem with position and hold at
towered airports when the tower is active. I think it's an incredibly
bad idea at non-towered airports, but what's worse is those pilots at
non-towered airports who call takeoff when I'm on base and then sit at
the hold short line for a few seconds before deciding to mosey out onto
the runway.

When instructed to position and hold at a towered airport, I check final
and then pay attention to what's happening in the pattern by listening
to the radio. If I suspect a conflict, I question it.


JKG

"zatatime" wrote in message
...

No where that I know of.


The previous poster, John Smith, apparently knows of some place where it's
done.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:57:41 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

Where are older taildragger pilots taught to do a 360 to scan the pattern
prior to takeoff when instructed to position and hold? Why is this taught?


No where that I know of. At a towered airport you need trust in the
tower.

At uncontrolled airports a 360 (actually 270) is used if you have a
visual obstruction of some sort, or don't have a good look at what's
going on in the pattern for any other reason.

z

zatatime wrote:
No where that I know of. At a towered airport you need trust in the
tower.

I must say this is unsafe advice.

I've avoided being squished by landing aircraft TWICE by checking
before taking the runway at towered airports.

Always, always, always make sure no one is landing before you take any
runway. YOU are responsible, not the tower controller, for the safety
of your flight.

"zatatime" wrote in message
...

At a towered airport you need trust in the tower.

Not this pilot. Trust no one, especially the people in the tower.

a few years back.. LAX Tower cleared an aircraft onto "Position and hold"
and then forgot about it while another aircraft landed on top of the one
waiting to depart.

It was dark out

BT

"Yossarian" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hawthorne, CA has recently begun a policy of not issuing position and
hold clearances. Can't say I like the policy.

Jose wrote:
A few months ago there was a discussion here about positioning on the
runway at an angle to better see traffic from the rear while awaiting
takeoff clearance, and I opined in the face of dissent by Steven
McNicoll that it was a good idea.

I had a chance to fly a 172 while I was out west and was unable to see
any better that way from a Skyhawk, which was the OP's aircraft. I
still think it makes sense to angle a Cherokee, but a 172 might as well
be straight on.

So, I guess I was wrong. (dang - that's twice now!)

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:57:41 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

Where are older taildragger pilots taught to do a 360 to scan the pattern
prior to takeoff when instructed to position and hold? Why is this
taught?


No where that I know of. At a towered airport you need trust in the
tower.



No way...

I turn a little toward the upwind as I cross the hold line before I turn and
align with the runway. I'm not gonna trust anyone or anything but my own
eyeballs.

Jay B

Always a good idea to approach the runway, or stop at the hold line, at an
angle that allows you a clear view of final. When I am done doing my run up,
and I call tower and am rolling up, I do kind of an 'S' turn so I can see
for myself that there is nothing there. And I look both ways before going
out onto the runway. Yes, planes do land the wrong way occasionally, even at
a towered facility.

--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....