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#1
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Ham sandwich navigation and radar failure
Question for the enroute controllers. You have a spamcan or two, not filed
/G, cleared direct to some fix. You don't care whether they are navigating with pilotage, a VFR GPS, or a ham sandwich, so long as they are on radar and don't go too grotesquely out of the way. Now the radar goes kaplooey, or whatever noise radar makes when it decides not to be radar any more. How do you get these guys into the no-radar rules - point them at the nearest navaid? Tell them to join the nearest airway? How do you maintain separation? Does this possibility make you nervous while the radar is working? I assume this is in the controller's handbook, but forgive my laziness. Just curious. -- David Brooks For the purists, s/radar/RADAR/g. For the pedants, 1,$s/radar/RADAR/g |
#2
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"David Brooks" wrote in message ... Question for the enroute controllers. You have a spamcan or two, not filed /G, cleared direct to some fix. You don't care whether they are navigating with pilotage, a VFR GPS, or a ham sandwich, so long as they are on radar and don't go too grotesquely out of the way. Now the radar goes kaplooey, or whatever noise radar makes when it decides not to be radar any more. How do you get these guys into the no-radar rules - point them at the nearest navaid? Tell them to join the nearest airway? Bingo. How do you maintain separation? You might not. But if they weren't on the verge of collision immediately prior to the loss of radar they won't be on the verge of collision immediately after the loss of radar. While there must be separation standards avoiding collision is the reason for ATC. Does this possibility make you nervous while the radar is working? Nope. The loss of radar will not cause the ATC facility to hit an aircraft or terrain. |
#3
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Does this possibility make you nervous while the radar is working? Nope. The loss of radar will not cause the ATC facility to hit an aircraft or terrain. But it could cause an aircraft to hit an ATC facility. Probably why you guys are moving all those tracons off the fields and into safe locations in the middle of nowhere. |
#4
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message ... Steven P. McNicoll wrote: Does this possibility make you nervous while the radar is working? Nope. The loss of radar will not cause the ATC facility to hit an aircraft or terrain. But it could cause an aircraft to hit an ATC facility. Probably why you guys are moving all those tracons off the fields and into safe locations in the middle of nowhere. LOL! One of the standard jokes around the Center here is that no matter how bad you screw up, at least the wreckage won't hit the building... Chip, ZTL |
#5
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Chip Jones wrote:
"Roy Smith" wrote in message ... Steven P. McNicoll wrote: Does this possibility make you nervous while the radar is working? Nope. The loss of radar will not cause the ATC facility to hit an aircraft or terrain. But it could cause an aircraft to hit an ATC facility. Probably why you guys are moving all those tracons off the fields and into safe locations in the middle of nowhere. LOL! One of the standard jokes around the Center here is that no matter how bad you screw up, at least the wreckage won't hit the building... Chip, say again the coordinates of your Center facility. :-) Matt |
#6
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"David Brooks" wrote in message ... Question for the enroute controllers. You have a spamcan or two, not filed /G, cleared direct to some fix. You don't care whether they are navigating with pilotage, a VFR GPS, or a ham sandwich, so long as they are on radar and don't go too grotesquely out of the way. Now the radar goes kaplooey, or whatever noise radar makes when it decides not to be radar any more. How do you get these guys into the no-radar rules - point them at the nearest navaid? Tell them to join the nearest airway? Bingo. How do you maintain separation? You might not. But if they weren't on the verge of collision immediately prior to the loss of radar they won't be on the verge of collision immediately after the loss of radar. While there must be separation standards avoiding collision is the reason for ATC. Does this possibility make you nervous while the radar is working? Nope. The loss of radar will not cause the ATC facility to hit an aircraft or terrain. But it might cause an aircraft to hit the tower! :-) Matt |
#7
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"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... But it might cause an aircraft to hit the tower! :-) I've experienced a few radar failures. I've never known one to cause an aircraft to quit flying. |
#8
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... But it might cause an aircraft to hit the tower! :-) I've experienced a few radar failures. I've never known one to cause an aircraft to quit flying. I didn't say it would cause it to quit flying. Well, at least not until after it hit the tower. Matt |
#9
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"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... I didn't say it would cause it to quit flying. Well, at least not until after it hit the tower. So how does a radar failure cause the aircraft to hit the tower? |
#10
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"David Brooks" wrote in message ...
Question for the enroute controllers. You have a spamcan or two, not filed /G, cleared direct to some fix. You don't care whether they are navigating with pilotage, a VFR GPS, or a ham sandwich, so long as they are on radar and don't go too grotesquely out of the way. Now the radar goes kaplooey, or whatever noise radar makes when it decides not to be radar any more. How do you get these guys into the no-radar rules - point them at the nearest navaid? Tell them to join the nearest airway? How do you maintain separation? Does this possibility make you nervous while the radar is working? I assume this is in the controller's handbook, but forgive my laziness. Just curious. -- David Brooks For the purists, s/radar/RADAR/g. For the pedants, 1,$s/radar/RADAR/g Love the VI commands. Shouldn't they have an escape-escape sequence before them? -Nathan |
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