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#1
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
Just curious if anybody on this forum knows who won the salvage
bidding for the DG-505 that hit a fencepost in Colorado: http://www.aigaviation.com/aviations...x?faano=N505KK It's cool if nobody wants to fess up, I'm just curious. That wing looks like it might be repairable, but it would take some careful and clever work, and it might take more time than is economical. I'd imagine you would have to scarf out a couple or three feet of wing spar each side of the break. The last I heard, DG wasn't in a position to make a new DG500-series wing; they have moved on to the DG1000. So if you wanted a new wing it had to come from their subcontractor AMS. Thanks, Bob K. |
#2
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On May 4, 2:32*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
Just curious if anybody on this forum knows who won the salvage bidding for the DG-505 that hit a fencepost in Colorado: http://www.aigaviation.com/aviations...l.aspx?faano=N.... It's cool if nobody wants to fess up, I'm just curious. That wing looks like it might be repairable, but it would take some careful and clever work, and it might take more time than is economical. I'd imagine you would have to scarf out a couple or three feet of wing spar each side of the break. The last I heard, DG wasn't in a position to make a new DG500-series wing; they have moved on to the DG1000. So if you wanted a new wing it had to come from their subcontractor AMS. Thanks, Bob K. Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. |
#3
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On May 4, 3:34*pm, Reed von Gal wrote:
Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen some pretty clever repairs on about this magnitude, so I respectfully disagree. For example, there was the Genesis where JJ basically created about six feet of wing from scratch. It took him a winter of on-and-off work, and turned out so nice you could not tell the wing had been repaired. Thanks, Bob K. http://www.hpaircraft.com |
#4
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On May 4, 4:47*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On May 4, 3:34*pm, Reed von Gal wrote: Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen some pretty clever repairs on about this magnitude, so I respectfully disagree. For example, there was the Genesis where JJ basically created about six feet of wing from scratch. It took him a winter of on-and-off work, and turned out so nice you could not tell the wing had been repaired. Thanks, Bob K.http://www.hpaircraft.com Fair enough. I guess you don't see those crazy repair jobs that often due to the fact it is usually cheaper just to write off the airplane. I have heard that Applebay has done some amazing stuff with wrecked gliders. |
#5
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On May 4, 3:47*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On May 4, 3:34*pm, Reed von Gal wrote: Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen some pretty clever repairs on about this magnitude, so I respectfully disagree. For example, there was the Genesis where JJ basically created about six feet of wing from scratch. It took him a winter of on-and-off work, and turned out so nice you could not tell the wing had been repaired. Thanks, Bob K.http://www.hpaircraft.com Hi Bob, AIG salvage will (should) tell you who got the DG-500, but they won't tell you how much the bid was. My Genesis had the last 6 foot of the left wing severed by a steel fence post. I contacted Marskey (one of the designers) with my repair scheme and got his OK to proceed. I made top and bottom templates at root, tip and inboard end of aileron from the good wing, then set the bottom templates on my level table arranged to accept the left wing. Laid in the two pieces and checked for straight L/E & T/E + straight top and bottom. Then I removed the carbon rods from the top spar cap on what would be a 150:1 scarf ratio by grinding out each rod, one at a time using a skill-saw with a 8" abrasive disc. This moved the repair inboard some 6', just before the location of wet-wing ballast tank. When all rods had been removed, I prepared the replacement rods by laying in each new rod every 3" which = 150:1. Things got a little complicated because the original spar achieved a taper by dropping a rod every few inches. Had to make sure all the new rods went as far as possible ( root spar cap starts with 100+ 1/8" carbon rods and the tip has 18 rods. The rods are wrapped in one layer of thin cloth (92110), so we laid a strip of that in before gooping each rod with epoxy an flox before laying it in its new hope. Working fast, Pat and I had them all in place in 45 minutes, wrapped the 92110 over the top, laid in a strip of peal-ply followed by a 2X4 with lead weights on top of it to achieve a compact unit. Next, I repaired/replaced the spar web and drag spar + as much of the lowes shin that were accessible which gave the newely re-joined wing pieces some regidity. When all that could be done from the top was accomplished, we carefully hoisted the wing up and rotated it upside down and laid it into the top templates. Then.....................did all the above again on the lower spar cap! I estimated I had 25K in the repair (at my normal shop rate $65/hr. When all was finished and post-cured we proof-loaded both wings to 5.3 G-s.................they took it without a groan and didn't hardly bend! A fun and challenging project. I planned on selling it, but got to liking it too much and with a new wing fairing and a few other tid- bits, she will climb with most ships..............won't out-climb anybody, but as delivered the ship wouldn't climb an inch in a 1 to 2 knot thermal. Believe me, I have tried...................she always did run well, the faster you go, the better she runs! Cheers, JJ PS, Just finished installing a ballistic parachute from BRS. The Genesis was designed for this system, so the hard points and hatch were all there. |
#6
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On May 4, 4:47*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On May 4, 3:34*pm, Reed von Gal wrote: Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen some pretty clever repairs on about this magnitude, so I respectfully disagree. For example, there was the Genesis where JJ basically created about six feet of wing from scratch. It took him a winter of on-and-off work, and turned out so nice you could not tell the wing had been repaired. Thanks, Bob K.http://www.hpaircraft.com I once knew a BGA senior inspector that rebuilt an absolutely shattered DG-300 (that he flew into some wires). The repair was at least this complex. The rebuild weighed within 10oz of the original weight. That was craftsmanship. Frank Whiteley |
#7
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On May 4, 7:53*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On May 4, 3:47*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote: On May 4, 3:34*pm, Reed von Gal wrote: Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen some pretty clever repairs on about this magnitude, so I respectfully disagree. For example, there was the Genesis where JJ basically created about six feet of wing from scratch. It took him a winter of on-and-off work, and turned out so nice you could not tell the wing had been repaired. Thanks, Bob K.http://www.hpaircraft.com Hi Bob, AIG salvage will (should) tell you who got the DG-500, but they won't tell you how much the bid was. My Genesis had the last 6 foot of the left wing severed by a steel fence post. I contacted Marskey (one of the designers) with my repair scheme and got his OK to proceed. I made top and bottom templates at root, tip and inboard end of aileron from the good wing, then set the bottom templates on my level table arranged to accept the left wing. Laid in the two pieces and checked for straight L/E & T/E + straight top and bottom. Then I removed the carbon rods from the top spar cap on what would be a 150:1 scarf ratio by grinding out each rod, one at a time using a skill-saw with a 8" abrasive disc. This moved the repair inboard some 6', just before the location of wet-wing ballast tank. When all rods had been removed, I prepared the replacement rods by laying in each new rod every 3" which = 150:1. Things got a little complicated because the original spar achieved a taper by dropping a rod every few inches. Had to make sure all the new rods went as far as possible ( root spar cap starts with 100+ 1/8" carbon rods and the tip has 18 rods. The rods are wrapped in one layer of thin cloth (92110), so we laid a strip of that in before gooping each rod with epoxy an flox before laying it in its new hope. Working fast, Pat and I had them all in place in 45 minutes, wrapped the 92110 over the top, laid in a strip of peal-ply followed by a 2X4 with lead weights on top of it to achieve a compact unit. Next, I repaired/replaced the spar web and drag spar + as much of the lowes shin that were accessible which gave the newely re-joined wing pieces some regidity. When all that could be done from the top was accomplished, we carefully hoisted the wing up and rotated it upside down and laid it into the top templates. Then.....................did all the above again on the lower spar cap! *I estimated I had 25K in the repair (at my normal shop rate $65/hr. When all was finished and post-cured we proof-loaded both wings to 5.3 G-s.................they took it without a groan and didn't hardly bend! A fun and challenging project. I planned on selling it, but got to liking it too much and with a new wing fairing and a few other tid- bits, she will climb with most ships..............won't out-climb anybody, but as delivered the ship wouldn't climb an inch in a 1 to 2 knot thermal. Believe me, I have tried...................she always did run well, the faster you go, the better she runs! Cheers, JJ PS, Just finished installing a ballistic parachute from BRS. The Genesis was designed for this system, so the hard points and hatch were all there. Wow, awesome. |
#8
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On Wed, 4 May 2011 15:34:21 -0700 (PDT), Reed von Gal
wrote: Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen a couple of wings that were more damaged than this (LS-8, spar broken four feet from the root, Nimbus 2C spar broken twice) which were repaired for a reasonable price (FAR less than the 30.000 you cite). It might be a problem in the US (where probably only a few DG-505s are flying), though - usually one takes an undamaged wing and builds female molds in which the broken wing is fixed. If there's no undamaged wing available, things get complicated... Cheers Andreas |
#9
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On 5/4/2011 7:56 PM, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On May 4, 4:47 pm, Bob wrote: On May 4, 3:34 pm, Reed von wrote: Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen some pretty clever repairs on about this magnitude, so I respectfully disagree. For example, there was the Genesis where JJ basically created about six feet of wing from scratch. It took him a winter of on-and-off work, and turned out so nice you could not tell the wing had been repaired. Thanks, Bob K.http://www.hpaircraft.com I once knew a BGA senior inspector that rebuilt an absolutely shattered DG-300 (that he flew into some wires). The repair was at least this complex. The rebuild weighed within 10oz of the original weight. That was craftsmanship. Frank Whiteley George Applebay once (chucklingly, once he realized how little I then knew about composite repairs), said to me, "Oh no, Bob. That's not a major repair. To us, a major repair might be something like splicing a main spar within 3 feet of the root." As JJ and others have previously shared, fiberglass-based composites are conceptually (as distinct from 'craftsmanly') easy to repair, and definitely simpler if enough of the broken bits remain from which to make (if no unbroken bits exist from which to pull) female molds in which to create/splice things back together. Carbon is not fundamentally more difficult to repair, though arguably more 'persnickety' due to lower strength margins (thanks to its relatively higher stiffness compared to fiberglass) in the final product, and increased difficulty visually verifying proper/complete 'wetting-out' of dry hand layups. Kevlar is in a different league, due (not entirely) to cutting difficulties. I know of a Nimbus II that was shattered (fatally, unfortunately) on an OFL attempt, and - unlike Humpty Dumpty - the fuselage (& canopy) was (were) pieced back together to make a male mold/plug, around which a female mold was formed, in which a new cockpit area was made, then grafted back onto the spliced-together tailboom. Major wing repairs were also required. All done by two guys with previously little fiberglass experience, one of whom later opened an FAA-approved composite repair station. If the repairs are properly done, no detectable weight gain due to the repairs need occur. As always, the devil is in the details, so...kids, don't try this at home without professional input. Bob W. P.S. Anyone who takes the above as sufficient guidance and knowledge to begin crafting their own structural composite repairs might want to reflect upon their place in the gene pool beforehand, so please - no flames on any basis of the information being incomplete. Of COURSE it is. My major conceptual point is that when assking the question, "Can [this collection of composite shards] be repaired?" the answers is almost always, "Yes," when we're talking 'glass gliders'. Insert the word 'economically' directly ahead of 'repaired' and the answer become much more complex. |
#10
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Who got the Colorado DG-505?
On May 5, 9:30*pm, BobW wrote:
On 5/4/2011 7:56 PM, Frank Whiteley wrote: On May 4, 4:47 pm, Bob *wrote: On May 4, 3:34 pm, Reed von *wrote: Trust me, it's not repairable. Even if it was, you would end up spending years and 30k dollars plus fixing the thing. I've seen some pretty clever repairs on about this magnitude, so I respectfully disagree. For example, there was the Genesis where JJ basically created about six feet of wing from scratch. It took him a winter of on-and-off work, and turned out so nice you could not tell the wing had been repaired. Thanks, Bob K.http://www.hpaircraft.com I once knew a BGA senior inspector that rebuilt an absolutely shattered DG-300 (that he flew into some wires). *The repair was at least this complex. *The rebuild weighed within 10oz of the original weight. *That was craftsmanship. Frank Whiteley George Applebay once (chucklingly, once he realized how little I then knew about composite repairs), said to me, "Oh no, Bob. That's not a major repair. To us, a major repair might be something like splicing a main spar within 3 feet of the root." As JJ and others have previously shared, fiberglass-based composites are conceptually (as distinct from 'craftsmanly') easy to repair, and definitely simpler if enough of the broken bits remain from which to make (if no unbroken bits exist from which to pull) female molds in which to create/splice things back together. Carbon is not fundamentally more difficult to repair, though arguably more 'persnickety' due to lower strength margins (thanks to its relatively higher stiffness compared to fiberglass) in the final product, and increased difficulty visually verifying proper/complete 'wetting-out' of dry hand layups. Kevlar is in a different league, due (not entirely) to cutting difficulties. I know of a Nimbus II that was shattered (fatally, unfortunately) on an OFL attempt, and - unlike Humpty Dumpty - the fuselage (& canopy) was (were) pieced back together to make a male mold/plug, around which a female mold was formed, in which a new cockpit area was made, then grafted back onto the spliced-together tailboom. Major wing repairs were also required. All done by two guys with previously little fiberglass experience, one of whom later opened an FAA-approved composite repair station. If the repairs are properly done, no detectable weight gain due to the repairs need occur. As always, the devil is in the details, so...kids, don't try this at home without professional input. Bob W. P.S. Anyone who takes the above as sufficient guidance and knowledge to begin crafting their own structural composite repairs might want to reflect upon their place in the gene pool beforehand, so please - no flames on any basis of the information being incomplete. Of COURSE it is. My major conceptual point is that when assking the question, "Can [this collection of composite shards] be repaired?" the answers is almost always, "Yes," when we're talking 'glass gliders'. Insert the word 'economically' directly ahead of 'repaired' and the answer become much more complex.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The sticky part(no pun intended) is that it must be repaired in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions which may or may not be available. Note in JJ's description above that he worked closely with the designer in engineering his repair. And , contrary to Bob's comment, carbon struictures are more complex and critical to repair than "simple" glass structures. FWIW UH |
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