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#11
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:07:12 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:
The DG1000 spins very very very well for me. Wow. What a great glider. I don't know how the performance compares, but I like the ergonomics of the DG1000 much better than the Duo Discus (which I'd flown in February). I especially prefer the trim mechanism on the DG. The club where I flew the DG1000 uses it for ab initio trainer and first solos. Glider has survived a number of hard landings on a rough grass field. US Air Force Academy flies DG1000s, don't they? I've only flown a DG 1000 once, but that was a three hour flight from Omarama over to Lake Hawea, then most of the way to My Huxton and back to home ridge running - a weak day, not much wave to speak of but an excellent day for an intro to mountain flying. But I digress: I agree that its a very nice glider and very responsive once I'd got used to its size and weight. Better brakes than a Duo too. I liked it a lot: the only thing I wasn't keen on was getting into and out of it - not quite as bad as an ASH-25, but close. However, entry and egress from the 1001 looks to be a lot easier with its having a nose-wheel and being much closer to the floor. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#12
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Quote:
https://ia800105.us.archive.org/14/i..._ADA213513.pdf It makes for an interesting if lengthy read. Cheers Colin Last edited by Ventus_a : April 27th 20 at 02:00 AM. |
#13
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:03:22 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:26:16 -0700, krasw wrote: ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money? ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't. I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight, though admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people and it needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum energy entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick on the back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put the stick in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as it starts to spin. Recovery is normal. I still don't fully understand why we used the ASK-21 for my spin training, though: the club had, and still has, a Puchacz and I was very familiar with both the ASK-21 and the Puchacz at the time. Spinning a K-21 at Boulder, CO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iaLGmkuN0 -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I know that instructor. From the comments early on tow, it sounds like the weights were installed. Hadn't seen that video, so thanks for the link. Frank Whiteley |
#14
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 1:26:19 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money? My folks did not get the message that they are not having fun in the '21. We fly it XC and in contests. Schleicher has built over 900 and still has a good backlog. It is very hard to find one used in the US because nobody wants to give them up. I don't agree that it is a bear to fly. Most people pick it up pretty quickly. UH/K21 |
#15
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:15:03 -0700, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:03:22 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:26:16 -0700, krasw wrote: ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money? ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't. I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight, though admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people and it needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum energy entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick on the back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put the stick in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as it starts to spin. Recovery is normal. I still don't fully understand why we used the ASK-21 for my spin training, though: the club had, and still has, a Puchacz and I was very familiar with both the ASK-21 and the Puchacz at the time. Spinning a K-21 at Boulder, CO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iaLGmkuN0 -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I know that instructor. From the comments early on tow, it sounds like the weights were installed. Hadn't seen that video, so thanks for the link. I missed the comment about weights. I flew at Boulder (and did my BFR there when grandfathering my UK license to get a US glider license in 2001, but was flying with the commercial FBO (Mile High) rather than the club. But they only had G103 Acro IIIs then. Is it possible I flew with the same guy? I was pleased that I recognised the Boulder airfield immediately I saw that video. I only had a day or two in Denver on arrival - 2-3 days at Boulder and then it was time to head for the Free Flight World Champs at Lost Hills, CA, and the Sierra Cup at Sacramento. I flew into and out of Denver because I have friends there and because I really hate LAX. Besides it also gave me the chance of flying at Boulder, Avenal and Minden and then driving back from Sacramento on US70 to Cheyenne and then south to Denver. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#16
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 11:28:11 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:15:03 -0700, Frank Whiteley wrote: On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:03:22 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:26:16 -0700, krasw wrote: ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money? ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't. I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight, though admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people and it needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum energy entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick on the back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put the stick in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as it starts to spin. Recovery is normal. I still don't fully understand why we used the ASK-21 for my spin training, though: the club had, and still has, a Puchacz and I was very familiar with both the ASK-21 and the Puchacz at the time. Spinning a K-21 at Boulder, CO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iaLGmkuN0 -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I know that instructor. From the comments early on tow, it sounds like the weights were installed. Hadn't seen that video, so thanks for the link. I missed the comment about weights. I flew at Boulder (and did my BFR there when grandfathering my UK license to get a US glider license in 2001, but was flying with the commercial FBO (Mile High) rather than the club. But they only had G103 Acro IIIs then. Is it possible I flew with the same guy? I was pleased that I recognised the Boulder airfield immediately I saw that video. I only had a day or two in Denver on arrival - 2-3 days at Boulder and then it was time to head for the Free Flight World Champs at Lost Hills, CA, and the Sierra Cup at Sacramento. I flew into and out of Denver because I have friends there and because I really hate LAX. Besides it also gave me the chance of flying at Boulder, Avenal and Minden and then driving back from Sacramento on US70 to Cheyenne and then south to Denver. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I think there's a good chance you may have flown with Dr. John Campbell in 2001 at Mile High Gliding. Recall if he wore glasses? Frank Whiteley |
#17
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:14:50 -0700, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 11:28:11 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:15:03 -0700, Frank Whiteley wrote: On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:03:22 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:26:16 -0700, krasw wrote: ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money? ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't. I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight, though admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people and it needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum energy entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick on the back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put the stick in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as it starts to spin. Recovery is normal. I still don't fully understand why we used the ASK-21 for my spin training, though: the club had, and still has, a Puchacz and I was very familiar with both the ASK-21 and the Puchacz at the time. Spinning a K-21 at Boulder, CO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iaLGmkuN0 -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I know that instructor. From the comments early on tow, it sounds like the weights were installed. Hadn't seen that video, so thanks for the link. I missed the comment about weights. I flew at Boulder (and did my BFR there when grandfathering my UK license to get a US glider license in 2001, but was flying with the commercial FBO (Mile High) rather than the club. But they only had G103 Acro IIIs then. Is it possible I flew with the same guy? I was pleased that I recognised the Boulder airfield immediately I saw that video. I only had a day or two in Denver on arrival - 2-3 days at Boulder and then it was time to head for the Free Flight World Champs at Lost Hills, CA, and the Sierra Cup at Sacramento. I flew into and out of Denver because I have friends there and because I really hate LAX. Besides it also gave me the chance of flying at Boulder, Avenal and Minden and then driving back from Sacramento on US70 to Cheyenne and then south to Denver. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I think there's a good chance you may have flown with Dr. John Campbell in 2001 at Mile High Gliding. Recall if he wore glasses? I remember meeting John when I first showed up at the field, and him saying that I needed a flight in the 2.32, but events must have happened because I didn't get that flight. However, I did have one flight with him that involved a climb over a Boulder supermarket carpark, followed a bit higher by being joined by a bald eagle and ending up at 17000 just under a big Cu. I think the climb was basically a thermal reinforced by weak wave because when we tried pushing west into the hills we only found horrible sink. If I'm reading the sig correctly, my BFR was signed off by Gary Baughman. Does that sound right? One item I missed from my first post: Between the WC at Lost hills and the Open International bash at Sacramento, I spent a few days at Williams, where I flew their very nice Junior and converted to their Pegase, which was a good move since I spent the next two years flying the club Pegase 90 back in Cambridge. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#18
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 4:53:37 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 11:14:50 -0700, Frank Whiteley wrote: On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 11:28:11 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 09:15:03 -0700, Frank Whiteley wrote: On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 6:03:22 AM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:26:16 -0700, krasw wrote: ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money? ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't. I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight, though admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people and it needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum energy entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick on the back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put the stick in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as it starts to spin. Recovery is normal. I still don't fully understand why we used the ASK-21 for my spin training, though: the club had, and still has, a Puchacz and I was very familiar with both the ASK-21 and the Puchacz at the time. Spinning a K-21 at Boulder, CO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iaLGmkuN0 -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I know that instructor. From the comments early on tow, it sounds like the weights were installed. Hadn't seen that video, so thanks for the link. I missed the comment about weights. I flew at Boulder (and did my BFR there when grandfathering my UK license to get a US glider license in 2001, but was flying with the commercial FBO (Mile High) rather than the club. But they only had G103 Acro IIIs then. Is it possible I flew with the same guy? I was pleased that I recognised the Boulder airfield immediately I saw that video. I only had a day or two in Denver on arrival - 2-3 days at Boulder and then it was time to head for the Free Flight World Champs at Lost Hills, CA, and the Sierra Cup at Sacramento. I flew into and out of Denver because I have friends there and because I really hate LAX. Besides it also gave me the chance of flying at Boulder, Avenal and Minden and then driving back from Sacramento on US70 to Cheyenne and then south to Denver. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org I think there's a good chance you may have flown with Dr. John Campbell in 2001 at Mile High Gliding. Recall if he wore glasses? I remember meeting John when I first showed up at the field, and him saying that I needed a flight in the 2.32, but events must have happened because I didn't get that flight. However, I did have one flight with him that involved a climb over a Boulder supermarket carpark, followed a bit higher by being joined by a bald eagle and ending up at 17000 just under a big Cu. I think the climb was basically a thermal reinforced by weak wave because when we tried pushing west into the hills we only found horrible sink. If I'm reading the sig correctly, my BFR was signed off by Gary Baughman. Does that sound right? One item I missed from my first post: Between the WC at Lost hills and the Open International bash at Sacramento, I spent a few days at Williams, where I flew their very nice Junior and converted to their Pegase, which was a good move since I spent the next two years flying the club Pegase 90 back in Cambridge. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org Sadly, John passed away ten years ago of esophageal cancer. Still miss him and he's the one who really got me involved in SSA activities. Gary appears to have moved to Seattle and may be active with the Seattle Glider Council. Doesn't appear to have raced since 2009 though. The instructor in the spin video is Bob Faris. Frank Whiteley |
#19
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Friday, 24 April 2020 20:11:54 UTC+3, Martin Gregorie wrote:
So, on the whole I prefer trainers to be more unforgiving than the ASK-21 or the G-103. Personally, I like the Puchacz a lot - its much more pleasant to fly solo than either an ASK-21 or a G103. But, all I really was saying that thinking an ASK-21 won't spin is an attitude that may catch you out one day. Its manual also says it won't spin inverted but there are or were test pilots at Edwards who showed that to be wrong. I have been flying ASK 21s for 25 years first as a student and then as a flight instructor. I have never witnessed or heard anyone spinning 21, unless equipped with spin kit which we have. I would rate it as spin proof as anything can be. Statistics agree with this. You referring to Puchacz as forgiving trainer. It is more pleasant to fly but not forgiving at all. Are you aware that over 10% of Puchacz fleet has been spinned accidentally to ground? This is absolutely appalling statistic. |
#20
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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality
On Saturday, 25 April 2020 19:24:21 UTC+3, wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 1:26:19 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote: ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money? My folks did not get the message that they are not having fun in the '21. Put them to DG-1000 and ask again. |
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