Buying an older airplane

Hello community,

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something less
conductive as a replacement)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Kai Glaesner

I recently purchased a 69 Piper Arrow. This was after owning a 56 Cessna 172.
So I immediately went from a 48 y/o airplane to a 35 y/o airplane.

I have no problems with older aircraft, as long as a prebuy is done, all of the
logbooks are in order and make sense. And do your own search for damage. Be
leery if the N-number is changed from the original. I looked at one Piper
Arrow that was absolutely beautiful. The N-number had been changed and the
owner didn't know why. He and his partner bought this aircraft from a broker
in Ohio last year. After doing a search on NTSB website, FAA website, and
myairplane.com. I found that in the last three years the aircraft had three
incidents - 2 gear ups, and 1 off airport landing - all resulting in moderate
damage.

Be samrt - Be aware - and don't be in a hurry.

Good luck.

Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.

I think they get harder to sell when they get a certain age. Also, it seems
to go with decades. At this point, a sixties vintage bird just sounds OLD.
It conjures up thoughts of antiques rather than used planes.

If I you were to buy a plane that was that old, I would think somehting
collectible would be best. A V tail Bo, or something that people find
nostalgic. Not something that has tens of thousands of copies made after
yours left the factory. If you are going to go through the added expense
and attention that an older plane should get, don't you desire a certain
amount pride for it? Of course thats me, I would just ensure that you are
going to be happy, and thats something you know better than I.

Having said all this, acquisition costs are not the sort of thing that bug
me. If you are less concerned about the upkeep than the price tag or hangar
hours, then you may enjoy the older bird more.



"Kai Glaesner" wrote in message
...
Hello community,

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not
exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not
usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something
less
conductive as a replacement)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Kai Glaesner

What is your definition of "older aircraft"?
My definition is pre-1960. Then again, I fly a 45 Champ.

Kai Glaesner wrote:
Hello community,
imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something less
conductive as a replacement)?

Kai Glaesner wrote:

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not exceed?

I wouldn't go much further back than 1917.

George Patterson
Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if treason
be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason.

You'd have some pretty hard work convincing me to 'trade up' to a later model
Cherokee Six. I fly a 1965 PA32-260. The useful loads on Cherokee Sixes lost a
few pounds every year they were in production, to the point that the new 6x is
really a 5 seat airplane (useful load is 150 lbs less than mine). Mine is a
young 39 years old though, with only about 3200 TTAF and a fresh overhaul.

Dude wrote:

Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.

I think they get harder to sell when they get a certain age. Also, it seems
to go with decades. At this point, a sixties vintage bird just sounds OLD.
It conjures up thoughts of antiques rather than used planes.

If I you were to buy a plane that was that old, I would think somehting
collectible would be best. A V tail Bo, or something that people find
nostalgic. Not something that has tens of thousands of copies made after
yours left the factory. If you are going to go through the added expense
and attention that an older plane should get, don't you desire a certain
amount pride for it? Of course thats me, I would just ensure that you are
going to be happy, and thats something you know better than I.

Having said all this, acquisition costs are not the sort of thing that bug
me. If you are less concerned about the upkeep than the price tag or hangar
hours, then you may enjoy the older bird more.

"Kai Glaesner" wrote in message
...
Hello community,

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not
exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not
usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something
less
conductive as a replacement)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Kai Glaesner





--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

On 1-Apr-2004, "Kai Glaesner" wrote:

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not
exceed? If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was
not
usual before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used
something
less conductive as a replacement)?


There are a number of factors at work here. Fist of all, purchase price:
All else being equal, most people would prefer a newer airplane but budget
dictates how much they can spend. Barring collectible/antique factors,
purchase price generally goes down with age. So do annual hull insurance
costs. But it is crucial to remember that maintenance and other costs
(direct operating, hangar/tiedown, liability insurance) do not. Other than
depreciation, it will cost about as much to own and fly a 30 year old
airplane as it will a 5 year old version of the same model. Maybe even
more, since the older plane is likely to require more maintenance.

Corrosion is certainly more likely to be a problem with an older airframe,
but that's not a hard and fast rule. I've seen 40 year old airplanes that
have been well maintained and are totally free of corrosion. I've also seen
10 year old airplanes that look like they might dissolve any minute.

One major reason a buyer might choose to limit the age range he/she would
consider is that most models undergo refinements/improvements over the
years. For example, Piper Arrows got a much-needed cabin stretch in the
early '70s. Then, with the Arrow III version in '77 they got much greater
fuel capacity (which increased range from adequate to awesome).


-Elliott Drucker

Kai,

Age need not be a limiting factor if you do your homework and get a good
pre-purchase. The cherokee and descendents (including the arrow) are
essentially unchanged from the original models which appeared in the 60's.
For aircraft like the cherokee, the danger that comes with age is wear/tear,
corrosion, and damage history, hence the need for a good pre-purchase.

Here's a random selection of other intangibles: before the mid to late 60's,
most light aircraft had random panel/flap/engine control arrangements (if
this is important to you); quaint items like "toe brakes" may not appear on
older aircraft; you may find it difficult to find parts for certain older
aircraft.

mark

"Kai Glaesner" wrote in message
...
Hello community,

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not
exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not
usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something
less
conductive as a replacement)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Kai Glaesner

But our 1964 C172 "maturity" let us park in the Vintage Aircraft parking
at OSH last year.

Dude wrote:
Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.




--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

"Dude" wrote in message ...
Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.

Why not? Selling an older airplane is often easier than selling a
newer one. Since they tend to be priced lower, there's a larger
market for them.


I think they get harder to sell when they get a certain age. Also, it seems
to go with decades. At this point, a sixties vintage bird just sounds OLD.
It conjures up thoughts of antiques rather than used planes.

My plane is of a 60s vintage. It's quite a popular model and I
don't think I'd have any trouble selling it. Folks with similar
planes generally sell them within a few weeks. I've flown a current
model('03) of my plane and there is very little real difference
between the two. The new bird is slower and carries less load, but is
constructed pretty much the same as the 60s version. The major
difference is in aquisition price (~$200K difference).


If I you were to buy a plane that was that old, I would think somehting
collectible would be best. A V tail Bo, or something that people find
nostalgic. Not something that has tens of thousands of copies made after
yours left the factory.

snip

Now you're getting into the "harder to sell" category. A popular
model also ensures that parts availability will not be a problem and
that most mechanics will be familiar with the airplane. These are big
pluses when considering the amount of time and expense that will be
required to maintain the aircraft.

If you are going to go through the added expense
and attention that an older plane should get, don't you desire a certain
amount pride for it? Of course thats me, I would just ensure that you are
going to be happy, and thats something you know better than I.

So, those with non-collectible old planes are not proud of them?
I'm willing to bet that you are not an airplane owner :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)