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Buying an older airplane



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 1st 04, 02:25 PM
Kai Glaesner
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Default Buying an older airplane

Hello community,

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something less
conductive as a replacement)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Kai Glaesner




  #2  
Old April 1st 04, 03:21 PM
Larryskydives
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I recently purchased a 69 Piper Arrow. This was after owning a 56 Cessna 172.
So I immediately went from a 48 y/o airplane to a 35 y/o airplane.

I have no problems with older aircraft, as long as a prebuy is done, all of the
logbooks are in order and make sense. And do your own search for damage. Be
leery if the N-number is changed from the original. I looked at one Piper
Arrow that was absolutely beautiful. The N-number had been changed and the
owner didn't know why. He and his partner bought this aircraft from a broker
in Ohio last year. After doing a search on NTSB website, FAA website, and
myairplane.com. I found that in the last three years the aircraft had three
incidents - 2 gear ups, and 1 off airport landing - all resulting in moderate
damage.

Be samrt - Be aware - and don't be in a hurry.

Good luck.
  #3  
Old April 1st 04, 04:35 PM
Dude
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Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.

I think they get harder to sell when they get a certain age. Also, it seems
to go with decades. At this point, a sixties vintage bird just sounds OLD.
It conjures up thoughts of antiques rather than used planes.

If I you were to buy a plane that was that old, I would think somehting
collectible would be best. A V tail Bo, or something that people find
nostalgic. Not something that has tens of thousands of copies made after
yours left the factory. If you are going to go through the added expense
and attention that an older plane should get, don't you desire a certain
amount pride for it? Of course thats me, I would just ensure that you are
going to be happy, and thats something you know better than I.

Having said all this, acquisition costs are not the sort of thing that bug
me. If you are less concerned about the upkeep than the price tag or hangar
hours, then you may enjoy the older bird more.



"Kai Glaesner" wrote in message
...
Hello community,

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not

exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not

usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something

less
conductive as a replacement)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Kai Glaesner






  #4  
Old April 1st 04, 05:11 PM
Ray Andraka
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Default

You'd have some pretty hard work convincing me to 'trade up' to a later model
Cherokee Six. I fly a 1965 PA32-260. The useful loads on Cherokee Sixes lost a
few pounds every year they were in production, to the point that the new 6x is
really a 5 seat airplane (useful load is 150 lbs less than mine). Mine is a
young 39 years old though, with only about 3200 TTAF and a fresh overhaul.

Dude wrote:

Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.

I think they get harder to sell when they get a certain age. Also, it seems
to go with decades. At this point, a sixties vintage bird just sounds OLD.
It conjures up thoughts of antiques rather than used planes.

If I you were to buy a plane that was that old, I would think somehting
collectible would be best. A V tail Bo, or something that people find
nostalgic. Not something that has tens of thousands of copies made after
yours left the factory. If you are going to go through the added expense
and attention that an older plane should get, don't you desire a certain
amount pride for it? Of course thats me, I would just ensure that you are
going to be happy, and thats something you know better than I.

Having said all this, acquisition costs are not the sort of thing that bug
me. If you are less concerned about the upkeep than the price tag or hangar
hours, then you may enjoy the older bird more.

"Kai Glaesner" wrote in message
...
Hello community,

imagine you consider byuing an older airplane, e.g. a Piper from the Pa-28
Arrow series: is there an age (or a year of birth ;-) you would not

exceed?
If yes, for what reason (e.g. may be that corrosion-protection was not

usual
before that year, or that copper was so expensive, they used something

less
conductive as a replacement)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Kai Glaesner





--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759


  #5  
Old April 1st 04, 06:17 PM
Dan Truesdell
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But our 1964 C172 "maturity" let us park in the Vintage Aircraft parking
at OSH last year.

Dude wrote:
Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.




--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

  #6  
Old April 1st 04, 10:36 PM
John Galban
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"Dude" wrote in message ...
Personally, I would not want to own a plane over 30 years old. Not that
they are unsafe, just that I wouldn't want to have to sell it.


Why not? Selling an older airplane is often easier than selling a
newer one. Since they tend to be priced lower, there's a larger
market for them.


I think they get harder to sell when they get a certain age. Also, it seems
to go with decades. At this point, a sixties vintage bird just sounds OLD.
It conjures up thoughts of antiques rather than used planes.


My plane is of a 60s vintage. It's quite a popular model and I
don't think I'd have any trouble selling it. Folks with similar
planes generally sell them within a few weeks. I've flown a current
model('03) of my plane and there is very little real difference
between the two. The new bird is slower and carries less load, but is
constructed pretty much the same as the 60s version. The major
difference is in aquisition price (~$200K difference).


If I you were to buy a plane that was that old, I would think somehting
collectible would be best. A V tail Bo, or something that people find
nostalgic. Not something that has tens of thousands of copies made after
yours left the factory.


snip

Now you're getting into the "harder to sell" category. A popular
model also ensures that parts availability will not be a problem and
that most mechanics will be familiar with the airplane. These are big
pluses when considering the amount of time and expense that will be
required to maintain the aircraft.

If you are going to go through the added expense
and attention that an older plane should get, don't you desire a certain
amount pride for it? Of course thats me, I would just ensure that you are
going to be happy, and thats something you know better than I.


So, those with non-collectible old planes are not proud of them?
I'm willing to bet that you are not an airplane owner :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)
  #7  
Old April 2nd 04, 12:30 AM
G.R. Patterson III
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Default



John Galban wrote:

So, those with non-collectible old planes are not proud of them?
I'm willing to bet that you are not an airplane owner :-)


I'd be more inclined to bet that he doesn't talk to many aircraft owners or hang
around airports much. Anyone who's seen someone polishing the bugs off his old Cessna
140 after a flight knows better.

George Patterson
Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if treason
be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason.
  #8  
Old April 2nd 04, 01:02 AM
Tom Sixkiller
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Default


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


John Galban wrote:

So, those with non-collectible old planes are not proud of them?
I'm willing to bet that you are not an airplane owner :-)


I'd be more inclined to bet that he doesn't talk to many aircraft owners

or hang
around airports much. Anyone who's seen someone polishing the bugs off his

old Cessna
140 after a flight knows better.

Somehow, the thread that ran recently about how out-of-date the vintage
aircraft (pre 90's??) are compared to the new generation (i.e., Cirrus)
comes to mind.




  #9  
Old April 2nd 04, 04:34 AM
Dude
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Default

I hang around airports quite a lot. I run into more renters than owners, as
I rent my plane out. The owners I speak to more often than not have a
warbird, aerobatic plane, homebuilt, etc.

A Cessna 140 would not fit my description of a common plane which has tens
of thousands of newer copies running around. Why? Because at some point,
there was so little demand for them that they tended to get parted out.

Twenty ears from now, a clean 152 will have the same charm and desirability
as a 140 does now. They don't make them anymore. But I would not bet on the
curve before that time, nor desire to keep one up in the meantime. Most of
the schools here are starting to sell them off cheap because they are not
making money and are too much trouble to manage.

I don't see many people out taking great care of their 30 plus year old
172's. I see those planes rotting in hangars for lack of care and use, or
working out their last days in an FBO. Now, there is a great market for old
172's as rental planes, but the schools are not paying top dollar. There are
exceptions, there are a couple 172's that have been fully restored to better
than new with cool custom paint jobs. However, if those owners had put the
same amount of care into a less commodity type plane, they would be able to
recoup more of their value in a sale.

While we are making bets, I bet you make quick judgements about people more
than you should.


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


John Galban wrote:

So, those with non-collectible old planes are not proud of them?
I'm willing to bet that you are not an airplane owner :-)


I'd be more inclined to bet that he doesn't talk to many aircraft owners

or hang
around airports much. Anyone who's seen someone polishing the bugs off his

old Cessna
140 after a flight knows better.

George Patterson
Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if

treason
be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason.



  #10  
Old April 2nd 04, 05:31 AM
Dave Stadt
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Dude" wrote in message
...
I hang around airports quite a lot. I run into more renters than owners,

as
I rent my plane out. The owners I speak to more often than not have a
warbird, aerobatic plane, homebuilt, etc.

A Cessna 140 would not fit my description of a common plane which has tens
of thousands of newer copies running around. Why? Because at some point,
there was so little demand for them that they tended to get parted out.

Twenty ears from now, a clean 152 will have the same charm and

desirability
as a 140 does now. They don't make them anymore. But I would not bet on

the
curve before that time, nor desire to keep one up in the meantime. Most

of
the schools here are starting to sell them off cheap because they are not
making money and are too much trouble to manage.

I don't see many people out taking great care of their 30 plus year old
172's. I see those planes rotting in hangars for lack of care and use, or
working out their last days in an FBO. Now, there is a great market for

old
172's as rental planes, but the schools are not paying top dollar. There

are
exceptions, there are a couple 172's that have been fully restored to

better
than new with cool custom paint jobs. However, if those owners had put the
same amount of care into a less commodity type plane, they would be able

to
recoup more of their value in a sale.

While we are making bets, I bet you make quick judgements about people

more
than you should.


You must hang around some sorry ass airports.



 




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