Practice IMC in real IMC

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Peter R." wrote in message
...

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:


Unusual attitude recovery and stalls are probably things I would not do
in IMC.

One one instrument proficiency check a few years ago, I had a CFII not
only
ask me to perform stalls, but also to make two steep turns, all while
flying on an IFR flight plan in IMC.


I take it you dumped that guy?



Why?

Matt

Matt Barrow wrote:

I take it you dumped that guy?

Nope. He's a 10,000 hour, gray-haired ATP with a lot of experience to
share and a very good teacher. I would imagine he only hands out tasks
such as these if he has confidence in the instrument pilot taking the IPC.

--
Peter

One one instrument proficiency check a few years ago, I had a CFII not only
ask me to perform stalls, but also to make two steep turns, all while
flying on an IFR flight plan in IMC

Seems a bit like asking a student to practice spins on his turn from
base to final. Some things seem better to practice simulated. In my
aircraft the plane rolls over about 30 degrees in the stall and has a
pretty good nose down attitude. I wouldn't be excited to do that in
IMC.

-Roberts

Robert M. Gary wrote:
One one instrument proficiency check a few years ago, I had a CFII not only
ask me to perform stalls, but also to make two steep turns, all while
flying on an IFR flight plan in IMC


Seems a bit like asking a student to practice spins on his turn from
base to final. Some things seem better to practice simulated. In my
aircraft the plane rolls over about 30 degrees in the stall and has a
pretty good nose down attitude. I wouldn't be excited to do that in
IMC.

I actually recover from stalls better under the hood than I do visually.
A stall feels much less dramatic to me when I can't see out and I tend
to respond faster and smoother than when stalling visually. I would
have no fear doing stalls in IMC with a competent instructor along.
Same with steep turns. I always fly them better under the hood than
visually.


Matt

Thanks for everyones response to my question.
I would add a note about the practice of stalls and unusual attitude
recovery in IMC.
I work in the Oil and Gas industry on Catalytic Cracking units. If
something goes wrong it is serious (usually only in $, but sometimes
lives)
However almost nothing ever goes wrong. And when it does, it is almost
always because TWO things went wrong. Therefore we never test one
thing going wrong, because we never know when the other thing might
also go wrong.
Imagine practicing stalls in IMC at the moment your vacuum system
fails? Or steep turns?
Not for me - but others have a high risk tolerance.
Thanks for everyones response.

Did he have you practice Controlled Flight Into Terrain also?

Did he have you practice Controlled Flight Into Terrain also?

Do landings count?

Doug wrote:

Did he have you practice Controlled Flight Into Terrain also?

rimshot

You've been a great crowd! Thank you all and good night.

--
Peter

Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, "gregscheetah" said:
I want to practice maneuvers, descending turns and basic manual
maneuvering in IMC conditions. Is it possible to get ATC to assign you
a 'practice area' in real IMC environment? Say a block of airspace
like they do for aerobatics? Of course I would first do this with a
CFII.

My CFII would request a hold at the local holding fix, and then request a
block altitude. As long as you stayed on the correct side of the hold,
ATC are remarkably tolerant of what you do - stalls, unusual attitude
recovery, climbs and descents at a given speed, climbs and descents at a
given rate, etc. You're already doing constant rate turns in the hold, so
do them partial panel and time them.



I am not sure if I like that idea of turning a holding pattern into a
maneuvering exercise. A hold is a clearly defined maneuver even though
ATC may be tolerant to deviations.

Why not simply tell ATC that you need some airspace to do some
maneuvering and be done with?

gregscheetah wrote:
Hello,

I want to practice maneuvers, descending turns and basic manual
maneuvering in IMC conditions. Is it possible to get ATC to assign you
a 'practice area' in real IMC environment?

Absolutely. Ask for something like, "Request permission to maneuver
within 5 miles of XXX, between 3000 and 4000".

Whether you get it or not depends on how much traffic there is. As
long as there's no conflicting traffic, ATC should be able to approve
a block. The controller will want to know for how long you'll need
the block.

Make sure you ask for something you can comply with, i.e. a DME radius
around a VOR/DME, or a radius around any en-route fix if you've got
DME. And keep in mind that an IFR clearance is a serious thing; if
you're cleared to maneuver within 5 miles of XXX, you damn well better
make sure you stay within that circle.