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#1
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Best option for electric self starting glider
Hi experienced glider pilots,
I am a newly retired ex glider pilot that is updating my license and want to do some serious soaring and distance flights in Europe now that I have plenty of time. I live in Lausanne (member of Montricher gliding club) and as well member in Landskrona gliding club in Sweden as well where I spend most of my summers. I have come down to the following alternatives for a private purchase: - LAK 17C Front Electric Self starter, 18m, 22kW, 10.32 m2 wing surface, MTOW 600kg and CS-22 certification - GP-15 Jetta, retractable motor, 15m, 25kW, 7.78 m2 wing surface, MTOW 470kg, UL/EcoLight certification Both ships are flapped, take water ballast, Vne= 275km/h, wing loading between 37 - 57kg/m2, L/D around 50 and has a base price of apps. 100kEuro GP15 seems to be a more modern glider with safety cockpit, ballistic rescue system and steerable tail wheel but LAK seems to be a more stable company with longer experience. This is a nice problem to have but I would very much like your input as I have a one time opportunity to get my dream machine and I want to get it right. /Magnus |
#2
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Best option for electric self starting glider
Hello Magnus,
I can't respond to flight characteristics of the two self-launchers you mentioned (LAK-17C and GP-Gliders JETA). But, I can say that I sat in a JETA and also have JETA serial number 5 on order. The JETA MTOG, per the provisional flight manual, is 525KG (1157 lbs). Below are the advertised self-launch numbers with the larger battery: a) 5 x takeoff and climb to 800 m (2,600 feet) altitude, or b) 1 x takeoff and climb to 800 m altitude + 150 km (80 nm) autonomy, or c) 1 x takeoff and total climb to 4 500 m (14,700 feet) d) my number: aero tow and 185 km (100nm) autonomy based on 20 nm/launch. Climb rate: 3,7 m/s (728 fpm or 7.2 knots) takeoff distance: 180 m (590 feet) I visited the GP-Glider factory near Krosno, Poland (jokingly to make sure that they weren't operating out of a tent). I was happy that they were doing things correctly. A visit to the LAK factory would have given me a balanced experience, but I was not able to do that. Raul Boerner LS-6BWL |
#3
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Best option for electric self starting glider
I'd take any unproven factory "statistics" with a large grain of
salt. You have a well known Antares 20E pilot based at Montricher, have you asked his opinion? You remember that old saw: never buy the first of anything, it applies equally to yachts and sailplanes. Dave Walsh (20E owner). |
#4
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Best option for electric self starting glider
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:45:05 AM UTC-4, Dave Walsh wrote:
Dave Walsh (20E owner). I believe that should be "(Long-suffering Antares 20E owner)"? Meanwhile, mine has failed yet again... |
#5
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Best option for electric self starting glider
Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month.
I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs. I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers. |
#6
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Best option for electric self starting glider
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month. I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs. I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers. Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions. |
#7
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Best option for electric self starting glider
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:31:13 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote: Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month. I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs. I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers. Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions. LAK 17B FES is a sustainer but the new 17C FES is claimed as a self-starter (as miniLAK) with higher landing gear for propeller clearance, stronger FES, different aerodynamicall configuration of wings and fuselage according to LAK. For the Diana 2 FES I don't know. |
#8
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Best option for electric self starting glider
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:41:36 PM UTC+1, Magnus wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:31:13 PM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote: Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month. I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs. I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers. Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions. LAK 17B FES is a sustainer but the new 17C FES is claimed as a self-starter (as miniLAK) with higher landing gear for propeller clearance, stronger FES, different aerodynamicall configuration of wings and fuselage according to LAK. For the Diana 2 FES I don't know. Thank you for enlightening me Magnus. I didn't see that one on the LAK website. |
#9
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Best option for electric self starting glider
If you register the Diana 2 as an ultralight, you can self launch. There's Diana 2's delivered and flying in France in this configuration.
If you register it as EASA CS-22, you cannot (legally). I'm told it's easier for them to get the initial TC through as a sustainer. For self-launch under CS-22 you need 23cm of propeller clearance with the main wheel fully deflated. I believe both the Mini-LAK and the Silent 2 operate outside of CS-22 as microlights or otherwise if you want to use them for self launching. It sounds like LAK is trying to get the 17C through on CS-22 for self launch with a modified landing gear to get that required clearance. I hope they'll be successful and others will follow. On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:41:36 PM UTC+1, Magnus wrote: On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:31:13 PM UTC+2, wrote: On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:04:43 PM UTC+1, wrote: Did you consider a Diana 2-FES? Mine delivers this month. I chose it because it's a proven performing 15m glider, and it has the proven electric FES system. I don't want to be a test pilot for a new system with bugs. I didn't place my order until I confirmed the performance figures myself and flew it to evaluate the handling, I would not trust any predicted/calculated numbers. Are the Diana 2 FES and Lak 17B FES officially "self starters" - i.e. self-launchers as are the GP 15 and the Mini-LAK? Please correct me if I am wrong but I wasn't aware that they are other than self-sustainers, although I believe self-launching is unofficially possible in the right wind/runway/weight conditions. LAK 17B FES is a sustainer but the new 17C FES is claimed as a self-starter (as miniLAK) with higher landing gear for propeller clearance, stronger FES, different aerodynamicall configuration of wings and fuselage according to LAK. For the Diana 2 FES I don't know. |
#10
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Best option for electric self starting glider
Minilak is cs22 glider, not ultralight.
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