IFR use of handheld GPS

Yeah, but that's becase they don't have FOOBAR in their computer so
they want to know what direction you'll be going so they can apply
radar separation. That's unrelated to what equipment you're navigating
with.

Its related to the discussion of not requiring ATC to assign you a
vector in order to go direct.

-Robert

Peter,

John Deakin wrote about this on Avweb back in 1998.

Take a look at:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182076-1.html

Tim.

On 3 May 2006 14:41:25 -0700, wrote:

Tim,

All of that sounds very reasonable to me. But so many people think
that they can't navigate direct without approved panel mount GPSs that
I thought there might be some truth in it.

So if a controller asks if I can navigate direct to some intersection
(while under IFR) I can say yes and use my handheld and that's okay? I
suppose it'll all work out, but I wasn't sure how to answer that
question a month or so ago when I was asked. So I said "we can wing
it" and his response was, "well I better give you a vector" and then I
went and "augmented" his vector with my handheld. I'm sure the
controller would have preferred that I just say yes and do it. It
would have been easier for him.

Peter

Tim Auckland wrote:
Here's my layman's understanding of this. I hope someone will jump
in and correct me if I've got something wrong,

If you're IFR en-route, ATC has three ways of directing you::

a) via an airway;
b) direct;
c) vectors;

ATC needs to have you on radar to issue (b) or (c).

You should only accept a direct clearance if you're confident you can
navigate direct.
It doesn't matter what method you plan to use to navigate direct -- it
can be dead reckoning, celestial navigation, visual (if you're VMC),
VOR, hand-held GPS, panel-mount GPS, etc.

If you're not confident you can navigate direct, then you should
refuse the direct clearance. ATC already has you on radar, so it's
typically no big deal for them to issue a radar vector instead.

What happens if you've accepted a direct clearance, and your hand-held
GPS's battereis die?
It's just the same as any other reason for being unable to navigate
direct (clouds cover the stars, you can no longer see your
destination, your ham sandwich falls to the floor...). You inform
ATC, eg:
"Cessna 12345 is no longer able to navigate direct xyz. Request
radar vectors."
(Remember, they've already got you on radar to issue the direct
clearance.)

So, it's OK to accept a direct clearance, even if you're /U, as long
as you're confident you can do the navigation.

It's also good practice to always cross-check your navigation using
some independent means.

Once again, if any of this is wrong, stupid, or illegal, please
correct me. I'm here to learn!

Cheers,

Tim.

Simply said, ifr use of vfr gps is not in the spirit of the far's.

William L.Snow, PE wrote:
Simply said, ifr use of vfr gps is not in the spirit of the far's.

So that is why I asked the original question. Does IFR use of a
drugstore-bought calculator or a wris****ch or a sextant fall under the
same category? If not why is it different? Do you use IFR pencils to
copy your clearance on IFR paper? I'm getting silly, but in all
seriousness, where do you draw the line?

Peter

wrote:
William L.Snow, PE wrote:

Simply said, ifr use of vfr gps is not in the spirit of the far's.


So that is why I asked the original question. Does IFR use of a
drugstore-bought calculator or a wris****ch or a sextant fall under the
same category?

Does the FAA have a set of regs written for a sextant? They do for the GPS.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

Does the FAA have a set of regs written for a sextant? They do for the
GPS.


Where can that set of regs be found?

Newps wrote:
wrote:
William L.Snow, PE wrote:

Does the FAA have a set of regs written for a sextant? They do for the GPS.

But do they have regs regarding handheld GPS units? There may be TSOs
and other stuff for panel mounts, but that has nothing to do with
handhelds. Just because both have the term "GPS" in the name doesn't
connect them in a regulatory sense. You might as well call your
handheld an "automatic sextant". Then is it okay to use while IFR? I
bet there are no regs for those.

In article . com,
wrote:

You might as well call your
handheld an "automatic sextant". Then is it okay to use while IFR? I
bet there are no regs for those.

can you use a CD player while IFR? of course you can.

Can you use a PED while IFR? of course you can.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Nah, a real pilot would cross correlate the waypoint off of two VOR's,
then use the DG (that precesses mightily), set from the compass (that
swings a lot in the turbulence) to navigate to the said waypoint, so
when he gets back to the base he can give the neophytes next to the
water cooler a blow by blow account of the whole heroic deed......

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...
Nah, a real pilot would cross correlate the waypoint off of two VOR's,
then use the DG (that precesses mightily), set from the compass (that
swings a lot in the turbulence) to navigate to the said waypoint, so
when he gets back to the base he can give the neophytes next to the
water cooler a blow by blow account of the whole heroic deed......


Doug, you sound like one of the few on this group who actually know how to
fly.