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#1
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ASW20 or LS6
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2" 200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20 can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department. Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy |
#2
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ASW20 or LS6
On Jan 30, 7:06*pm, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2" 200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20 can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department. Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy LS6 is the best handling ship I've ever flown. I got in one in the Southern French Alps and flew in the first World Grand Prix with zero hours in type and felt like I could do anything I needed with the ship. Given the random and weak weather, I had to do some pretty marginal things and it Never bit me :-) Unfortunately, "Z27" met a sad fate a few years later in the French Alps. :-( Tim McAllister EY |
#3
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ASW20 or LS6
On Jan 30, 6:10*pm, Tim wrote:
On Jan 30, 7:06*pm, binks wrote: I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2" 200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20 can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department. Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy LS6 is the best handling ship I've ever flown. I got in one in the Southern French Alps and flew in the first World Grand Prix with zero hours in type and felt like I could do anything I needed with the ship. Given the random and weak weather, I had to do some pretty marginal things and it Never bit me :-) Unfortunately, "Z27" met a sad fate a few years later in the French Alps. :-( Tim McAllister EY I think the spin reputation of the ASW-20 is a bit undeserved. Mine behaved perfectly predictably once I got the CG forward of the aft limit where the previous owner had left it! The LS-6 does have a narrower cockpit, but this should only be a problem if you have really broad shoulders. I suggest you try both before deciding. There isn't much difference in performance between the two. Mike |
#4
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ASW20 or LS6
On 1/30/2011 5:06 PM, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2" 200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20 can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department. Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy I suggest it hinge on glider and trailer condition, and price. If you plan to land in short fields over trees, go for the ASW 20. The landing flaps are awesome. If you can find an ASW 20 B/C, you also get automatic hookup elevator and a great disk brake. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) |
#5
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ASW20 or LS6
I've flown the standard class version of both those gliders, ie, the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. I'm 5'11" and 200 lbs, wear a parachute, and am long in the torso. Regarding the LS6, you probably won't fit in if you use a chair type parachute, but a backpack type will work fine. If your torso is average length, your height shouldn't be a problem - but if you have a long torso you might not have enough head room. Your upper arms are what is going to hit the sides of the canopy rail - if you have thick, muscular arms you might not fit, but if you're average it'll be fine. Don't make the mistake of making the trailer type and condition subservient to the plane. A good trailer makes assembly and retrieves a joy, a bad one could make you fly less often and forgo doing XC. Condition of the gel coat and the instrument package is also a consideration. Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong, Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the way the Rolladen Schneider flies. -John binks wrote: I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2" 200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20 can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department. Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy |
#6
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ASW20 or LS6
On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote:
Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong, Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the way the Rolladen Schneider flies. You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead, compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation for fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue it's better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) |
#7
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ASW20 or LS6
On 1/30/2011 8:04 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote: Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong, Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the way the Rolladen Schneider flies. You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead, compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation for fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue it's better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too. And I should've pointed out the ASW-19 is NOT the std class version of the ASW 20. It was an entirely new flapped design with a smaller, higher aspect ratio, thinner wing. The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) |
#8
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ASW20 or LS6
"The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France."
That's not really true Eric. While the Pegasus fuselage is descended from the ASW-20, the wing is very different. Different planform and airfoil. In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype, SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a pure standard class ship. I don't have the use of flaps, but I have a very interesting dual aileron setup. The inboard ailerons end about 1.5 meters from the wing root, and they throw differently than the outboard. It's a lovely machine with a very fast roll rate. Next type you voyage to Ephrata you'll have to look me up and I can show it to you. As for it's performance, it will eat a Pegasus for lunch. Back to the topic. I've not flown the LS-6, but I do know they are world renowned for their handling and in my opinion it was the best of the 80's 15m ships. You won't be dissapointed with either one from a performance standpoint. I'd agree with the advice given so far. Find a version of each that you can sit in. This should have more influence than the other factors. You need to fit! Minor comfort issues can be addressed with trial and error and pillows and cushions. If you fit comfortably in both, pick the one with the best instruments and trailer. I'm 6'3 and fit wonderfully in the 20. There is something real nice about having a little extra shoulder room! -Kevin |
#9
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ASW20 or LS6
On Jan 31, 1:28*am, KevinFinke wrote:
"The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France." That's not really true Eric. While the Pegasus fuselage is descended from the ASW-20, the wing is very different. Different planform and airfoil. *In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype, SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a pure standard class ship. I don't have the use of flaps, but I have a very interesting dual aileron setup. The inboard ailerons end about 1.5 meters from the wing root, and they throw differently than the outboard. It's a lovely machine with a very fast roll rate. Next type you voyage to Ephrata you'll have to look me up and I can show it to you. As for it's performance, it will eat a Pegasus for lunch. Back to the topic. I've not flown the LS-6, but I do know they are world renowned for their handling and in my opinion it was the best of the 80's 15m ships. You won't be dissapointed with either one from a performance standpoint. I'd agree with the advice given so far. Find a version of each that you can sit in. This should have more influence than the other factors. You need to fit! Minor comfort issues can be addressed with trial and error and pillows and cushions. If you fit comfortably in both, pick the one with the best instruments and trailer. I'm 6'3 and fit wonderfully in the 20. There is something real nice about having a little extra shoulder room! -Kevin Thanks for all the information, it has been a great help. I do plan to sit in both before I make a decision I did not mention that the ASW20 is the "B" model and has had the wings refinished about 8 years ago. They only re-gelcoated the top side and not the bottom side. the bottom side does have some gelcoat cracking. I have not seen it yet to determine the condition of the cracks. I do know that winglets were custom added at the same time that the wings were refinished by the same company that did the refinishing. From my conversations with the current owner of the LS6 the wings have been entirely regel coated a few years back (not sure how long ago) but he does say that the gelcoat is in excellent condition. Also it is the LS6A model. Both gliders have Cobra trailers that appear to be in excellant condition |
#10
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ASW20 or LS6
I owned an ASW 20F for some years which was ballasted to the aft C of G
limit ( the trim system isn't the greatest piece of design and forward C of G just makes it worse) and it was a very docile forgiving glider. As stated earlier the flap system is still the best ever devised which is very comforting for field landings. Having said that on the type discussion group Yahoo site there were numerous posts suggesting that the later B and C models with the blown wing are not as forgiving, although I have not flown either so can't confirm if this is true. As with all Schleicher products it is the quality of the refinish which matters as the Vorgelat which they use is complete c**p and will have worn out years ago. At 04:15 31 January 2011, Eric Greenwell wrote: On 1/30/2011 8:04 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote: On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote: Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong, Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the way the Rolladen Schneider flies. You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead, compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation for fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue it's better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too. And I should've pointed out the ASW-19 is NOT the std class version of the ASW 20. It was an entirely new flapped design with a smaller, higher aspect ratio, thinner wing. The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) |
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