ASW20 or LS6

I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

On Jan 30, 7:06*pm, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

LS6 is the best handling ship I've ever flown. I got in one in the
Southern French Alps and flew in the first World Grand Prix with zero
hours in type and felt like I could do anything I needed with the
ship. Given the random and weak weather, I had to do some pretty
marginal things and it Never bit me :-) Unfortunately, "Z27" met a sad
fate a few years later in the French Alps. :-(

Tim McAllister EY

On Jan 30, 6:10*pm, Tim wrote:
On Jan 30, 7:06*pm, binks wrote:

I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

LS6 is the best handling ship I've ever flown. I got in one in the
Southern French Alps and flew in the first World Grand Prix with zero
hours in type and felt like I could do anything I needed with the
ship. Given the random and weak weather, I had to do some pretty
marginal things and it Never bit me :-) Unfortunately, "Z27" met a sad
fate a few years later in the French Alps. :-(

Tim McAllister EY

I think the spin reputation of the ASW-20 is a bit undeserved. Mine
behaved perfectly predictably once I got the CG forward of the aft
limit where the previous owner had left it! The LS-6 does have a
narrower cockpit, but this should only be a problem if you have really
broad shoulders. I suggest you try both before deciding. There isn't
much difference in performance between the two.

Mike

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:19:41 -0800, Mike the Strike wrote:

I think the spin reputation of the ASW-20 is a bit undeserved. Mine
behaved perfectly predictably once I got the CG forward of the aft limit
where the previous owner had left it! The LS-6 does have a narrower
cockpit, but this should only be a problem if you have really broad
shoulders. I suggest you try both before deciding. There isn't much
difference in performance between the two.

Mine departed twice during roughly 45 degree banked thermalling turns at
around 45 kts in flap #3 (zero flap deflection). There was no buffet or
warning - it just went. I wondered if it was just something my glider
did. I also thought it might be due to micro-turbulence in those two
thermals, so I tried repeating the turn near home at the end of the day
at the same and at even lower airspeeds she just flew smoothly round the
circle.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

At 13:41 31 January 2011, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:19:41 -0800, Mike the Strike wrote:

I think the spin reputation of the ASW-20 is a bit undeserved. Mine
behaved perfectly predictably once I got the CG forward of the aft
limit
where the previous owner had left it! The LS-6 does have a narrower
cockpit, but this should only be a problem if you have really broad
shoulders. I suggest you try both before deciding. There isn't much
difference in performance between the two.

Mine departed twice during roughly 45 degree banked thermalling turns at

around 45 kts in flap #3 (zero flap deflection). There was no buffet or
warning - it just went. I wondered if it was just something my glider
did. I also thought it might be due to micro-turbulence in those two
thermals, so I tried repeating the turn near home at the end of the day
at the same and at even lower airspeeds she just flew smoothly round the

circle.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


Mine stalls at 40 knots wings level. At 45 degrees it would therefore
stall at 48 knots, and (even assuming your bank was a bit less than it
looked) you were already stalled.

I have found its handling impeccable (well, so far!) but wouldn't thermal
below 50 with neutral flap. 45 is too slow even with thermalling flap.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:32:43 +0000, Roger Burghall wrote:

At 13:41 31 January 2011, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:19:41 -0800, Mike the Strike wrote:

I think the spin reputation of the ASW-20 is a bit undeserved. Mine
behaved perfectly predictably once I got the CG forward of the aft
limit
where the previous owner had left it! The LS-6 does have a narrower
cockpit, but this should only be a problem if you have really broad
shoulders. I suggest you try both before deciding. There isn't much
difference in performance between the two.

Mine departed twice during roughly 45 degree banked thermalling turns at

around 45 kts in flap #3 (zero flap deflection). There was no buffet or
warning - it just went. I wondered if it was just something my glider
did. I also thought it might be due to micro-turbulence in those two
thermals, so I tried repeating the turn near home at the end of the day
at the same and at even lower airspeeds she just flew smoothly round the

circle.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


Mine stalls at 40 knots wings level. At 45 degrees it would therefore
stall at 48 knots, and (even assuming your bank was a bit less than it
looked) you were already stalled.

I have found its handling impeccable (well, so far!) but wouldn't
thermal below 50 with neutral flap. 45 is too slow even with thermalling
flap.

Mine was better at low speed than that - was quite happy at 42 kt in
thermal flap and was generally well-behaved in a thermal between 45 and
50 kts in zero flap (#3) - I generally thermaled in zero flap because it
felt so much more responsive: IIRC it stalled at around 37-38. Certainly
it wouldn't sit down above 34 kts in landing flap.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On 1/30/2011 5:06 PM, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

I suggest it hinge on glider and trailer condition, and price. If you
plan to land in short fields over trees, go for the ASW 20. The landing
flaps are awesome. If you can find an ASW 20 B/C, you also get automatic
hookup elevator and a great disk brake.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

I've flown the standard class version of both those gliders, ie, the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. I'm 5'11" and 200 lbs, wear a parachute, and am
long in the torso.

Regarding the LS6, you probably won't fit in if you use a chair type
parachute, but a backpack type will work fine. If your torso is
average length, your height shouldn't be a problem - but if you have a
long torso you might not have enough head room. Your upper arms are
what is going to hit the sides of the canopy rail - if you have thick,
muscular arms you might not fit, but if you're average it'll be fine.

Don't make the mistake of making the trailer type and condition
subservient to the plane. A good trailer makes assembly and retrieves
a joy, a bad one could make you fly less often and forgo doing XC.
Condition of the gel coat and the instrument package is also a
consideration.

Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.

-John

binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote:


Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.

You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead,
compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation for
fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue it's
better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 1/30/2011 8:04 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote:


Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.

You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead,
compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation for
fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue it's
better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too.

And I should've pointed out the ASW-19 is NOT the std class version of
the ASW 20. It was an entirely new flapped design with a smaller, higher
aspect ratio, thinner wing. The std class version is the Pegasus, built
in France.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)