Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway

Yesterday I tried to plan a flight from Big Bear City (California) to Santa
Monica, in a Bonanza. The routing I worked out was L35..DAWNA.V8.PDZ.V186
TIFNI.ELMOO.DARTS..KSMO. DAWNA is on a portion of the airway that shows a MEA
of 10500 on the chart. Since I was westbound, I figured to climb to 12000. I
planned to depart from runway 26. My calculations showed that the Bonanza
could carry out this climb.

My question is: How do I make sure that I don't hit anything between the
runway and the first fix on my filed route? The ODP for Big Bear only gives
details for runway 8, and says "N/A" for runway 26. The only departure
procedure is an obstacle departure, also for runway 8. So what's the proper
way for me to plan a flight so that I don't run into anything between the time
I leave runway 26 and the time I reach DAWNA? Should I use a VFR sectional?
Is there something on en-route IFR charts that I'm missing? Did I overlook
something in the Instrument Procedures Handbook (it seems surprisingly vague
on this)?

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:13:08 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Yesterday I tried to plan a flight from Big Bear City (California) to Santa
Monica, in a Bonanza. The routing I worked out was L35..DAWNA.V8.PDZ.V186
TIFNI.ELMOO.DARTS..KSMO. DAWNA is on a portion of the airway that shows a MEA
of 10500 on the chart. Since I was westbound, I figured to climb to 12000. I
planned to depart from runway 26. My calculations showed that the Bonanza
could carry out this climb.

My question is: How do I make sure that I don't hit anything between the
runway and the first fix on my filed route? The ODP for Big Bear only gives
details for runway 8, and says "N/A" for runway 26. The only departure
procedure is an obstacle departure, also for runway 8. So what's the proper
way for me to plan a flight so that I don't run into anything between the time
I leave runway 26 and the time I reach DAWNA? Should I use a VFR sectional?
Is there something on en-route IFR charts that I'm missing? Did I overlook
something in the Instrument Procedures Handbook (it seems surprisingly vague
on this)?
I don't have the plate in front of me. Sounds like there is no ifr
procedure off runway 26, so there is no way to be sure of obstacles
without using a vfr sectional as you say. Personally I don't know of
anyone who has used a vfr sectional in ifr conditions, and I don't
think I ever would. Of course, you could fly visually if weather
permitted. Stan

On Jan 13, 5:09*am, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:13:08 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:





Yesterday I tried to plan a flight from Big Bear City (California) to Santa
Monica, in a Bonanza. *The routing I worked out was L35..DAWNA.V8.PDZ.V186
TIFNI.ELMOO.DARTS..KSMO. *DAWNA is on a portion of the airway that shows a MEA
of 10500 on the chart. *Since I was westbound, I figured to climb to 12000. *I
planned to depart from runway 26. *My calculations showed that the Bonanza
could carry out this climb.

My question is: *How do I make sure that I don't hit anything between the
runway and the first fix on my filed route? *The ODP for Big Bear only gives
details for runway 8, and says "N/A" for runway 26. *The only departure
procedure is an obstacle departure, also for runway 8. *So what's the proper
way for me to plan a flight so that I don't run into anything between the time
I leave runway 26 and the time I reach DAWNA? *Should I use a VFR sectional?
Is there something on en-route IFR charts that I'm missing? *Did I overlook
something in the Instrument Procedures Handbook (it seems surprisingly vague
on this)?

I don't have the plate in front of me. *Sounds like there is no ifr
procedure off runway 26, so there is no way to be sure of obstacles
without using a vfr sectional as you say. *Personally I don't know of
anyone who has used a vfr sectional in ifr conditions, and I don't
think I ever would. *Of course, you could fly visually if weather
permitted. *Stan- Hide quoted text -

Your either joking or don't fly IFR in GA aircraft very often. There
are lots of airports where you have to define your own IFR departure
using the sectional charts. Some airports don't even show up on the
EnRoute charts.

-Robert

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:33:25 -0800 (PST), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


Your either joking or don't fly IFR in GA aircraft very often. There
are lots of airports where you have to define your own IFR departure
using the sectional charts. Some airports don't even show up on the
EnRoute charts.

You're partially right on the second one. I don't fly ifr GA in light
aircraft.

I didn't realize it was so prevalent, and considered a safe maneuvre.
Stan

On Jan 15, 4:33*am, wrote:

You're partially right on the second one. *I don't fly ifr GA in light
aircraft.

I didn't realize it was so prevalent, and considered a safe maneuvre.

Its probably most common when pilots are leaving their home field. My
airport does not have any IFR procedures at all. When I depart IFR I
only have to consider if I believe I can be VMC before I enter class
E. If I don't think the clouds are that high I don't need any
clearance at all, just throttle up and launch.

-Robert

On Jan 13, 6:09*am, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:13:08 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:
[...]Personally I don't know of
anyone who has used a vfr sectional in ifr conditions, and I don't
think I ever would.


I use sectionals all the time in IFR flight, especially when planning
departures from mountainous airports. I used to fly a King Air (part
135), and carried WAC charts so I would know where the low
terrain was.

Looking at the sectional, a runway 26 departure from Big Bear seems
pretty hairy in a Bonanza.

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:53:25 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 13, 6:09*am, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:13:08 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:
[...]Personally I don't know of
anyone who has used a vfr sectional in ifr conditions, and I don't
think I ever would.


I use sectionals all the time in IFR flight, especially when planning
departures from mountainous airports. I used to fly a King Air (part
135), and carried WAC charts so I would know where the low
terrain was.

Looking at the sectional, a runway 26 departure from Big Bear seems
pretty hairy in a Bonanza.




Indeed.

I wonder how would anyone plan an IFR departure from an airport with
no approach plate WITHOUT a VFR chart?

Mxsmanic wrote:
Yesterday I tried to plan a flight from Big Bear City (California) to Santa
Monica, in a Bonanza. The routing I worked out was L35..DAWNA.V8.PDZ.V186
TIFNI.ELMOO.DARTS..KSMO. DAWNA is on a portion of the airway that shows a MEA
of 10500 on the chart. Since I was westbound, I figured to climb to 12000. I
planned to depart from runway 26. My calculations showed that the Bonanza
could carry out this climb.

My question is: How do I make sure that I don't hit anything between the
runway and the first fix on my filed route? The ODP for Big Bear only gives
details for runway 8, and says "N/A" for runway 26. The only departure
procedure is an obstacle departure, also for runway 8. So what's the proper
way for me to plan a flight so that I don't run into anything between the time
I leave runway 26 and the time I reach DAWNA? Should I use a VFR sectional?
Is there something on en-route IFR charts that I'm missing? Did I overlook
something in the Instrument Procedures Handbook (it seems surprisingly vague
on this)?

Why would you think the Instrument Procedures Handbook seems
surprisingly vague in this regard? It is about approved IFR procedures,
not "rolling your own" obstacle clearance procedures. When an IFR
airport has IFR takeoff minimums on one or more runways, but not on
other runways (or runway) the FAA has determined that IFR departure on
the runway "NA" is unsafe.

So, if you use that runway without adequate visual reference you are on
your own and in highly risky territory.

The wise course of action would be to depart Runway 8, performance
permitting.

Sam Spade writes:

Why would you think the Instrument Procedures Handbook seems
surprisingly vague in this regard?

I figured IFR would leave no detail uncovered, but I was unable to find
specific instructions on what to do in the handbook.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes:


Why would you think the Instrument Procedures Handbook seems
surprisingly vague in this regard?


I figured IFR would leave no detail uncovered, but I was unable to find
specific instructions on what to do in the handbook.

What part of "Not Authorized" doesn't your mousetrap brain understand?