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#1
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Close call with engine failure in IMC
I'm close to finishing my IFR. I did most of my training at night but didn't get much IMC. Two out of the past 3 flights were in solid IMC. Fortunately the night training was pretty good and I've become somewhat comfortable quickly after the past 4 hours of IMC or so. The plan was to do my required long XC. KSQL RV STINS V199 ENI KUKI followed by UKI ENI V494 SAC KSAC KSAC SAC ALTAM SUNOL HWD and then VFR to SQL. Well before the last flight, the weather was mostly clear with a few clouds. Predicted were +1 degrees at 6000 with MEA's at the 5000-6000 and rain. My CFII knows the area damn well and can fly it blindfolded with lots of IMC experience and thousands of hours in Archers. We took off, all is good. Get to STINS about 5 miles off the coast and my instructor commented that that visibility is quickly getting MVFR. I'm happy as I want IMC experience. I take off the hood and fly. All is good. I have the plane trimmed for hands off flying and ready to get bored with 50 minutes more of cruise. Over the next few minutes I notice that I keep having to put more and more nose up trim...just a blip of the electric trim. I also notice I've lost 100 RPM but I figure maybe it was just I didn't set the power correctly a 4-5 minutes earlier or by leaning and trimming/pitch (less likely of course). Well this continues and my CFII puts on the carb heat and full power for 45 seconds. Power is resumed. We comment that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly gain power. We check and we're now closer to our destination and definitely STS than from home or an unintended stop at SFO. We repeat this process for a while. knowing the ceiling is around 4000 just 1000 feet below us. This whole time we are also keeping a close eye on the engine oil temp and pressure. All is in the green and holding steady. We do the approach into UKI breaking out of solid IMC at around 3000 and go missed. the engine seems ok in the climb out but again start dealing with ice again. We head to SAC and about 20 miles out we break into VMC where the engine clears and we don't use carb ice again for the rest of the trip. We do the approach SAC then HWD and then continue back to SQL. Today my CFII calls me and tells me they found the plane with a streak of oil on the cowling and one person said that he thinks it is a cracked cyclinder but the full analysis hasn't been began yet. Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least. IFR scared me to begin with...."PPL is a license to learn. IFR is a ticket to kill." I'm not afraid of the flying but the additional risks and workload that go with it. I'm now setting new minimums for me. Mountains without IMC and not at night IMC at night with another pilot unless the route is really really benign and I'm very familiar with it. LFIR - only if very local. IMC only in planes I've flown recently and know well. I'm sure I'll come up with others. Gerald Sylvester |
#2
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On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:01:49 GMT, "G. Sylvester"
wrote: We comment that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius Xav |
#3
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Sounds like it was a great learning experience! My first experience with
carb ice occurred with just me in the plane. My first experience, coincidentally, occurred within gliding distance of STS which was a waypoint for a final destination of Booneville Airport. This first experience pretty well followed the classic encounter and running on carb heat for a while, eliminated the issue - though I did opt to return to my home airport (RHV) since I considered myself a relatively 'new' pilot and didn't want to risk continuing on to Booneville where the surrounding topography enroute to Booneville, would be less than friendly in case of a forced landing. So, I headed back without further incident,,, oops, almost forgot (breaker popped out for the radio in the middle of a transmission to Flight Watch, where I had told them about the event and told them I was heading back to RHV and closing my previous flight plan to Boonville. I was in a C-152 and had just had my 'ticket' for almost a year. The second occurrence (years later,,, different destination) was more severe (carb heat didn't help) and I did an emergency landing at a nearby airport if your interested in the account you can find it on my 'online flying diary' g at: http://www.bayareapilot.com/7700AThollister.htm -- -- =----- Good Flights! Cecil PP-ASEL-IA Student - CP-ASEL Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond! Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet" - Cecil Day Lewis - "G. Sylvester" wrote in message om... I'm close to finishing my IFR. I did most of my training at night but didn't get much IMC. Two out of the past 3 flights were in solid IMC. Fortunately the night training was pretty good and I've become somewhat comfortable quickly after the past 4 hours of IMC or so. The plan was to do my required long XC. KSQL RV STINS V199 ENI KUKI followed by UKI ENI V494 SAC KSAC KSAC SAC ALTAM SUNOL HWD and then VFR to SQL. Well before the last flight, the weather was mostly clear with a few clouds. Predicted were +1 degrees at 6000 with MEA's at the 5000-6000 and rain. My CFII knows the area damn well and can fly it blindfolded with lots of IMC experience and thousands of hours in Archers. We took off, all is good. Get to STINS about 5 miles off the coast and my instructor commented that that visibility is quickly getting MVFR. I'm happy as I want IMC experience. I take off the hood and fly. All is good. I have the plane trimmed for hands off flying and ready to get bored with 50 minutes more of cruise. Over the next few minutes I notice that I keep having to put more and more nose up trim...just a blip of the electric trim. I also notice I've lost 100 RPM but I figure maybe it was just I didn't set the power correctly a 4-5 minutes earlier or by leaning and trimming/pitch (less likely of course). Well this continues and my CFII puts on the carb heat and full power for 45 seconds. Power is resumed. We comment that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly gain power. We check and we're now closer to our destination and definitely STS than from home or an unintended stop at SFO. We repeat this process for a while. knowing the ceiling is around 4000 just 1000 feet below us. This whole time we are also keeping a close eye on the engine oil temp and pressure. All is in the green and holding steady. We do the approach into UKI breaking out of solid IMC at around 3000 and go missed. the engine seems ok in the climb out but again start dealing with ice again. We head to SAC and about 20 miles out we break into VMC where the engine clears and we don't use carb ice again for the rest of the trip. We do the approach SAC then HWD and then continue back to SQL. Today my CFII calls me and tells me they found the plane with a streak of oil on the cowling and one person said that he thinks it is a cracked cyclinder but the full analysis hasn't been began yet. Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least. IFR scared me to begin with...."PPL is a license to learn. IFR is a ticket to kill." I'm not afraid of the flying but the additional risks and workload that go with it. I'm now setting new minimums for me. Mountains without IMC and not at night IMC at night with another pilot unless the route is really really benign and I'm very familiar with it. LFIR - only if very local. IMC only in planes I've flown recently and know well. I'm sure I'll come up with others. Gerald Sylvester |
#4
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"G. Sylvester" wrote in message om... Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least. Gerald Sylvester I wouldn't go...your good luck has already been cashed in. Mike MU-2 |
#5
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Where did you come up with those figures?
Mike MU-2 "yupyupxav" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:01:49 GMT, "G. Sylvester" wrote: We comment that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius Xav |
#6
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yupyupxav wrote:
Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm |
#7
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Thanks Dave! I have always wondered if the susceptibility of preasure
carburetors, like the one in my Helio, to carb icing was different than for float-type carburetors. Now that I see that it is, the question is "Why? Mike MU-2 "Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1109862423.178218@sj-nntpcache-3... yupyupxav wrote: Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm |
#8
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Mike Rapoport wrote:
Thanks Dave! I have always wondered if the susceptibility of preasure carburetors, like the one in my Helio, to carb icing was different than for float-type carburetors. Now that I see that it is, the question is "Why? I dunno. I just happened to have the link. I have no knowledge beyond that. I'd be interested in the answer, too. There are some references on the web page. Dave "Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1109862423.178218@sj-nntpcache-3... yupyupxav wrote: Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm |
#9
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It seems that there must be an error on the chart since it doesn't show
icing for pressure carburetors from 80% to 100% RH. I assume that it was an error made when the chart was converted to color. Mike MU-2 "Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1109868574.240872@sj-nntpcache-3... Mike Rapoport wrote: Thanks Dave! I have always wondered if the susceptibility of preasure carburetors, like the one in my Helio, to carb icing was different than for float-type carburetors. Now that I see that it is, the question is "Why? I dunno. I just happened to have the link. I have no knowledge beyond that. I'd be interested in the answer, too. There are some references on the web page. Dave "Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1109862423.178218@sj-nntpcache-3... yupyupxav wrote: Carburator icing is most likely to happen between +5 and - 15° Celcius http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm |
#10
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It's a lot bigger range than 50 to 60. Any time humidity is above 50% or
so be particularly vigilant. "G. Sylvester" wrote in message om... I'm close to finishing my IFR. I did most of my training at night but didn't get much IMC. Two out of the past 3 flights were in solid IMC. Fortunately the night training was pretty good and I've become somewhat comfortable quickly after the past 4 hours of IMC or so. The plan was to do my required long XC. KSQL RV STINS V199 ENI KUKI followed by UKI ENI V494 SAC KSAC KSAC SAC ALTAM SUNOL HWD and then VFR to SQL. Well before the last flight, the weather was mostly clear with a few clouds. Predicted were +1 degrees at 6000 with MEA's at the 5000-6000 and rain. My CFII knows the area damn well and can fly it blindfolded with lots of IMC experience and thousands of hours in Archers. We took off, all is good. Get to STINS about 5 miles off the coast and my instructor commented that that visibility is quickly getting MVFR. I'm happy as I want IMC experience. I take off the hood and fly. All is good. I have the plane trimmed for hands off flying and ready to get bored with 50 minutes more of cruise. Over the next few minutes I notice that I keep having to put more and more nose up trim...just a blip of the electric trim. I also notice I've lost 100 RPM but I figure maybe it was just I didn't set the power correctly a 4-5 minutes earlier or by leaning and trimming/pitch (less likely of course). Well this continues and my CFII puts on the carb heat and full power for 45 seconds. Power is resumed. We comment that it is strange since carb ice usually happens at 50-60 OAT rather than +3 celsius. After a couple of minutes RPM decreases again. We again apply carb heat and we instantly gain power. We check and we're now closer to our destination and definitely STS than from home or an unintended stop at SFO. We repeat this process for a while. knowing the ceiling is around 4000 just 1000 feet below us. This whole time we are also keeping a close eye on the engine oil temp and pressure. All is in the green and holding steady. We do the approach into UKI breaking out of solid IMC at around 3000 and go missed. the engine seems ok in the climb out but again start dealing with ice again. We head to SAC and about 20 miles out we break into VMC where the engine clears and we don't use carb ice again for the rest of the trip. We do the approach SAC then HWD and then continue back to SQL. Today my CFII calls me and tells me they found the plane with a streak of oil on the cowling and one person said that he thinks it is a cracked cyclinder but the full analysis hasn't been began yet. Right now I'm ready to go to Vegas as we got quite lucky we didn't have an engine failure at 5000 feet and 7nm out to sea. I dont' like swimming to say the least. IFR scared me to begin with...."PPL is a license to learn. IFR is a ticket to kill." I'm not afraid of the flying but the additional risks and workload that go with it. I'm now setting new minimums for me. Mountains without IMC and not at night IMC at night with another pilot unless the route is really really benign and I'm very familiar with it. LFIR - only if very local. IMC only in planes I've flown recently and know well. I'm sure I'll come up with others. Gerald Sylvester |
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