Bad Engrish?

On Jun 28, 8:33 pm, "Aluckyguess" wrote:
The controller getting upset doesn't do any good. That just makes a bad
situation worse. You either take the time or you tell him to shut the thing
down. Nobody needs to get upset. I hate it when controllers act all ****y. I
was flying through the palm springs tursa one day and ATC was getting all
over this guy in a helicopter. The guy didn't speak good English and was
getting more and more confused as the guy yelled at him. I almost asked for
his number so I could call him and remind him what his job was. His job is
to make sure everyone is safe not panic some new pilot into running into the
side of a mountain. After he gets the situation under control he can tell
the pilot to call and yell at him without the whole world listening.


I didn't think the controller was all that ****y for one, and he was
trying his best to make sure that the comm was correctly interpreted
and complied with which is his job.

JFK is one of the busiest airports in the world, and pilots flying
there should be professional and competent, which includes being able
to speak and understand basic english. The Air China pilot certainly
didn't meet the english requirement.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:33:05 -0700, "Aluckyguess" wrote in
:

The controller getting upset doesn't do any good. That just makes a bad
situation worse. You either take the time or you tell him to shut the thing
down. Nobody needs to get upset. I hate it when controllers act all ****y.

It reveals the controller's fear of losing control of his sector of
responsibility.

I was flying through the palm springs tursa one day and ATC was getting all
over this guy in a helicopter.

My experience with the KPSP TRSA personnel has been disappointing.
They seem inexperienced, to nonchalant about actually doing their job,
but ready to vector you hither and yawn to make room for the heavier
iron. I'm often tempted to tell them, "Negative stage three."

I heard a rumor that KPSP TRSA operation is being reassigned to a
military facility, IIRC.

The guy didn't speak good English and was
getting more and more confused as the guy yelled at him. I almost asked for
his number so I could call him and remind him what his job was. His job is
to make sure everyone is safe not panic some new pilot into running into the
side of a mountain.

I believe KPSP ATC was responsible for a Lear impacting Mt. San
Gregornio several years ago, because they forgot to issue a turn after
departure one night.

After he gets the situation under control he can tell
the pilot to call and yell at him without the whole world listening.

Right. It's like the controllers' personalities are paramount, and
the smooth conduct of aircraft through their airspace is secondary
sometimes.

Yeah...but they should also train the controllers on how to ditch
their various accents themselves, slow down a bit, and deal with ESL
pilots. The burden can't be 100% on the pilots to understand
controllers.
--
"I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source
code"

"Aluckyguess" :
The guy didn't speak good English and was
getting more and more confused as the guy yelled at him.
I almost asked for his number so I could call him and remind
him what his job was. His job is to make sure everyone is safe
not panic some new pilot into running into the side of a mountain.

And he might have reminded you what his job is not ... there isn't
supposed to be a language barrier there -- the reg specifies being able
to read, speak, write *and understand* English. Sorry, but I tend to
side with the ATC when a person's English is the source of the
confusion/problem.

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

Scary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU


Bad situation but I was amused that the person who produced the video felt
it necessary to provide subtitles for the ATC as well.

Aluckyguess writes:

The controller getting upset doesn't do any good. That just makes a bad
situation worse.

Given the workload of the controller and the potential risks, I think he did
very well.

You either take the time or you tell him to shut the thing
down.

It's unlikely the pilot would shut down; that would be a tremendous loss of
face. It's also unlikely that any amount of explanation would allow a person
who cannot understand English to suddenly start understanding it.

Nobody needs to get upset. I hate it when controllers act all ****y. I
was flying through the palm springs tursa one day and ATC was getting all
over this guy in a helicopter. The guy didn't speak good English and was
getting more and more confused as the guy yelled at him. I almost asked for
his number so I could call him and remind him what his job was.

The pilot, or the controller? If the pilot can't understand English, he needs
to stay on the ground.

His job is to make sure everyone is safe not panic some new pilot
into running into the side of a mountain.

A pilot who cannot understand English is not safe, and should never have left
the ground. By the time the controller talks to him, the flight is _already_
unsafe, because it's in the air with a pilot who cannot speak English.

Bob Fry writes:

Yeah...but they should also train the controllers on how to ditch
their various accents themselves, slow down a bit, and deal with ESL
pilots. The burden can't be 100% on the pilots to understand
controllers.

False. This controller spoke very clearly; his accent was completely
unimportant. The pilot's English was horrible, and completely unacceptable.
All of the fault rests with the pilot.

You cannot "deal with" pilots who cannot speak English. There is nothing you
can do to make a person understand your language if he cannot understand it.
This pilot's English was so poor that no action the controller might take, and
no English accent he might have used, would have sufficed to allow
communication. The pilot was simply incompetent in English.

Richard writes:

Bad situation but I was amused that the person who produced the video felt
it necessary to provide subtitles for the ATC as well.

Maybe it was just for the sake of consistency or political correctness.

Radio communication is often hard to understand for the uninitiated. Even
experienced users often make mistakes, unfortunately.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:44:22 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

Granted the controller was speaking
normally as he would to someone who understood English.

I often have trouble understanding controllers. I often suspect that
they try to mumble, on the theory that if the pilot doesn't know
what's going on, then he's not much of a pilot.

"My speech is more abbreviated and monotonal than your speech, so
there!"

My most frequent requestt to ATC is "Say again" which is pretty
abbreviated and monotonal itself. So there!

(See my post on Air Force One at Pease. THAT controller spoke clearly,
you bet!)

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:58:53 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

This controller spoke very clearly; his accent was completely
unimportant.

Spoken like a true monophone American!

Accents are VERY important. You might try landing at Liverpool with a
controller speaking clearly in a Liverpudlian accent. You wouldn't
have a clue what he was saying.

It's not enough to speak clearly. The controller should speak a
standard English, like that used by network announcers and news
readers.

That said, there is a particular problem understanding Asians speaking
English that they learned in secondary school or later. Though they
were taught a standard English, either American or British, and though
they may be entirely fluent, it can be very hard indeed to understand
everything they say. I wrote a recommendation for a graduate student
applying to Harvard for a PhD program. I had no doubt whatever that
she could handle the work with ease, but I had to admit that I was
sometimes mystified by her speech. ("Wolf" for example. She pronounced
it with a long O, and it became another word entirely.)


Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com