Bad Engrish?

Scary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU


--
Dallas

Dallas wrote:
Scary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU

Taxiing around JFK is a nightmare in the best of times if you're unfamiliar with
the airport. Having some large aircraft wandering around willy-nilly doesn't
improve things at all. Talk about a bull in a china shop, pardon the pun.

I wonder how long it took CD to give him an outgoing clearance? He may still be
sitting there at the ramp.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Jun 28, 1:18 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
Dallas wrote:
Scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU

Taxiing around JFK is a nightmare in the best of times if you're unfamiliar with
the airport. Having some large aircraft wandering around willy-nilly doesn't
improve things at all. Talk about a bull in a china shop, pardon the pun.

I wonder how long it took CD to give him an outgoing clearance? He may still be
sitting there at the ramp.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

I'd have told him to hold until get got the clearance. If it took in 3
hours to figure out what is going on, then he's going to sit for 3
hours. Maybe he can make an announcement over the PA and ask if
there are any pax on board who speak English.

-Robert

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:00:26 GMT, Dallas
wrote in
:

Scary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDEIvjwaFU


It's worse than that. It's down right dangerous!

That was a clear violation of regulations. What would it take to get
ATC to request those airmen who are unable to speak and comprehend
English to call the tower?

In a previous article, Larry Dighera said:
That was a clear violation of regulations. What would it take to get
ATC to request those airmen who are unable to speak and comprehend
English to call the tower?

Wouldn't help, they wouldn't understand what you said.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story
about a guy named `Manual'" - Dilbert

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:38:47 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

It's worse than that. It's down right dangerous!

It was dangerous. "hold November"

Was it just me or did it sound like the pilot was trying to BS his way
through the readback unwilling to admit that he didn't understand the word
"question"?

--
Dallas

In a previous article, said:
Was it just me or did it sound like the pilot was trying to BS his way
through the readback unwilling to admit that he didn't understand the word
"question"?

If there's one thing I've learned about the Chinese dealing with off-shore
programmers, it's that they will *never* admit that they don't understand
you. Even after they deliver something and you tell them it's nothing
like what you contracted for, they'll smile and nod and be very proud of
the quivering piece of **** that they delivered.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
Ok I'll "just hit delete". You can be "Delete".
- Ron Ritzman, talking to a spammer

In article ,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, said:
Was it just me or did it sound like the pilot was trying to BS his way
through the readback unwilling to admit that he didn't understand the word
"question"?

If there's one thing I've learned about the Chinese dealing with off-shore
programmers, it's that they will *never* admit that they don't understand
you. Even after they deliver something and you tell them it's nothing
like what you contracted for, they'll smile and nod and be very proud of
the quivering piece of **** that they delivered.

They are also some of the most prolific gamblers in the world! The whole
exchange sounded like a poker game to me -- who was the better bluffer,
with feigned misunderstanding of instructions.

If a violation were filed, they could always pull the tape and claim
that they didn't understand the instructions.

On 2007-06-28 16:20:06 -0700, (Paul Tomblin) said:

In a previous article, said:
Was it just me or did it sound like the pilot was trying to BS his way
through the readback unwilling to admit that he didn't understand the word
"question"?

If there's one thing I've learned about the Chinese dealing with off-shore
programmers, it's that they will *never* admit that they don't understand
you. Even after they deliver something and you tell them it's nothing
like what you contracted for, they'll smile and nod and be very proud of
the quivering piece of **** that they delivered.

This is true in some other Asian cultures as well. The political and
social history are such that people are afraid of admitting a mistake
for fear of being severely punished, perhaps even killed, and their
families shamed.

This creates problems in the cockpit, especially if you have a
not-so-subservient American copilot on board.

"Captain, you are below glide slope."
Ignoring rude American who does not know his place.
"Captain, you are below glide slope."
continuing to ignore this appallingly rude American
"Captain, my airplane." reaches for controls
slaps American's hand -- that'll teach him!

Walking into the pilots' lounge, with dozens of other Korean pilots
there, the American copilot hauled off and decked his captain (formerly
a colonel in the South Korean Air Force) in front of everybody.

"You ever slap my hand again, I'll kill ya."

dead silence throughout the room

Amazingly, the American lived. But then, he was burly.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:10:28 GMT, Dallas
wrote in
:

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:38:47 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

It's worse than that. It's down right dangerous!

It was dangerous. "hold November"

Was it just me or did it sound like the pilot was trying to BS his way
through the readback unwilling to admit that he didn't understand the word
"question"?

To me, it sounded like the only English the person speaking on the
radio aboard the China Airlines flight was able to recognize was the
ICAO phonetic alphabet, and the words contained in the
Pilot/Controller Glossary, but he was totally unable to comprehend
ATC's questions and instructions. Granted the controller was speaking
normally as he would to someone who understood English. I doubt it
would have helped if the China crew requested "speak slower", because
they didn't seem to be able to understand the English grammar nor the
meaning of the rest of the words spoken by ATC.

That person obviously isn't able to speak and understand English,
therefore they are in violation of the ICAO regulation equivalent to
91.711(c)(3):


http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text... .1.3.10.8.7.8
§ 91.711 Special rules for foreign civil aircraft.
top
Link to an amendment published at 72 FR 31679, June 7, 2007.

(a) General. In addition to the other applicable regulations of this
part, each person operating a foreign civil aircraft within the United
States shall comply with this section.

(b) VFR. No person may conduct VFR operations which require two-way
radio communications under this part unless at least one crewmember of
that aircraft is able to conduct two-way radio communications in the
English language and is on duty during that operation.

(c) IFR. No person may operate a foreign civil aircraft under IFR
unless—

(1) That aircraft is equipped with—

(i) Radio equipment allowing two-way radio communication with ATC when
it is operated in controlled airspace; and

(ii) Radio navigational equipment appropriate to the navigational
facilities to be used;

(2) Each person piloting the aircraft—

(i) Holds a current United States instrument rating or is authorized
by his foreign airman certificate to pilot under IFR; and

(ii) Is thoroughly familiar with the United States en route, holding,
and letdown procedures; and

(3) At least one crewmember of that aircraft is able to conduct
two-way radiotelephone communications in the English language and that
crewmember is on duty while the aircraft is approaching, operating
within, or leaving the United States.

(d) Over water. Each person operating a foreign civil aircraft over
water off the shores of the United States shall give flight
notification or file a flight plan in accordance with the
Supplementary Procedures for the ICAO region concerned.

(e) Flight at and above FL 240. If VOR navigational equipment is
required under paragraph (c)(1)(ii) of this section, no person may
operate a foreign civil aircraft within the 50 States and the District
of Columbia at or above FL 240, unless the aircraft is equipped with
distance measuring equipment (DME) capable of receiving and indicating
distance information from the VORTAC facilities to be used. When DME
required by this paragraph fails at and above FL 240, the pilot in
command of the aircraft shall notify ATC immediately and may then
continue operations at and above FL 240 to the next airport of
intended landing at which repairs or replacement of the equipment can
be made. However, paragraph (e) of this section does not apply to
foreign civil aircraft that are not equipped with DME when operated
for the following purposes and if ATC is notified prior to each
takeoff:

(1) Ferry flights to and from a place in the United States where
repairs or alterations are to be made.

(2) Ferry flights to a new country of registry.

(3) Flight of a new aircraft of U.S. manufacture for the purpose of—

(i) Flight testing the aircraft;

(ii) Training foreign flight crews in the operation of the aircraft;
or

(iii) Ferrying the aircraft for export delivery outside the United
States.

(4) Ferry, demonstration, and test flight of an aircraft brought to
the United States for the purpose of demonstration or testing the
whole or any part thereof.

[Doc. No. 18834, 54 FR 34320, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt.
91–227, 56 FR 65661, Dec. 17, 1991]