Who has a night rating?

In article ,
"David Brooks" wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

I do all most all of my night flying IFR. Personally, any night flight
out of the local area is IFR. I've lost one good friend who hit the
ground by accident at night (ref: NTSB N80720).

Unfortunately the Commercial certificate makes you take at least one night
cross-country VFR. Is that inadvertently instilling bad habits? :-) Even
more annoying, you have to bring along some CFI-ballast.

Not at all -- I have many 500+mile night trips under my belt (all VFR).
You just have to be extra careful about weather, so you don't get in
over your head.

Night w/low ceilings/poor vis + mountains = disaster.

Robert

On 4 Mar 2004 10:08:35 -0800, (Robert M. Gary) wrote:

"Marc Lattoni" wrote in message news:iYx1c.129200$Hy3.3305@edtnps89...
It seems interesting that in Canada we learn to recover from spins and in
the US pilots learn to fly at night. (not to mention chandelles etc).

Wonder if one set of skills is preferable or whether pilots should learn
both.

In the US we used to require spins before we figured out that more
students died with their CFI practicing them than actually ran into
problems. There are not enough CFIs out there that are qualified to
demo spins.
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And a number of Airline Jocks crashed because they had never been on
their back. Now they call it "Upset" training and Airline Jocks get
basic acro instruction on a frequent and regular basis.
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I do all most all of my night flying IFR. Personally, any night flight
out of the local area is IFR. I've lost one good friend who hit the
ground by accident at night (ref: NTSB N80720).
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````
It's good to have some instrument training before night flying. When
you leave the urban areas the lights on the ground may match the stars
in the sky. If so, how do you tell which side is up without flying on
instruments? Or on an overcast night with no stars and out in the
hitherland where there are no lights on the ground, how do you tell
which side is up?

Basic instruments solves your problem in both instances.

Big John

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

There are not enough CFIs out there that are qualified to demo spins.

I thought every CFI has to be able to demonstrate spins for the checkride?


No. You only have to show a sign-off that you have had spin training.

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

I do all most all of my night flying IFR. Personally, any night flight
out of the local area is IFR. I've lost one good friend who hit the
ground by accident at night (ref: NTSB N80720).

Unfortunately the Commercial certificate makes you take at least one night
cross-country VFR. Is that inadvertently instilling bad habits? :-) Even
more annoying, you have to bring along some CFI-ballast.


Not only that, but charter pilots are prohibited from filing IFR until they
meet minimum experience requirements. So you get a lot of low time scud
runners.

Recently, David Brooks posted:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

I do all most all of my night flying IFR. Personally, any night
flight out of the local area is IFR. I've lost one good friend who
hit the ground by accident at night (ref: NTSB N80720).

Unfortunately the Commercial certificate makes you take at least one
night cross-country VFR. Is that inadvertently instilling bad habits?

I don't think so. One just has to use good judgement and consider the
parameters of night flying. For example, if the weather is marginal for
day VFR, it would be a good idea cancel the night VFR.

Some positives:
* You can "see and avoid" traffic much easier, as you can see the running
lights from a lot further away than you can during the day.

* The air is typically much smoother at night.

* Landing is easier for some, because you can focus on more useful
indicators of your status.

Some cautions:
* Pilotage and map reading skills are important. Terrain is difficult to
see, so knowing where you are is more challenging.

* Finding an airport located within a city can be tricky.

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Recently, David Brooks posted:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

I do all most all of my night flying IFR. Personally, any night
flight out of the local area is IFR. I've lost one good friend who
hit the ground by accident at night (ref: NTSB N80720).

Unfortunately the Commercial certificate makes you take at least one
night cross-country VFR. Is that inadvertently instilling bad habits?

I don't think so. One just has to use good judgement and consider the
parameters of night flying. For example, if the weather is marginal for
day VFR, it would be a good idea cancel the night VFR.

Some positives:
* You can "see and avoid" traffic much easier, as you can see the running
lights from a lot further away than you can during the day.

* The air is typically much smoother at night.

* Landing is easier for some, because you can focus on more useful
indicators of your status.

Some cautions:
* Pilotage and map reading skills are important. Terrain is difficult to
see, so knowing where you are is more challenging.

* Finding an airport located within a city can be tricky.

Roger all of that. I was only pointing out a slight irony. To the above
cautions, I'd add: learning how to detect clouds (with and without city
lights underneath) and *really* listening to the current reports from
Fligh****ch. A/FD reading skills are also important - both the airports I
used have traps for occasional night fliers.

-- David Brooks

"Marc Lattoni" wrote in message news:Kmw1c.128621$Hy3.30256@edtnps89...

Just wondering, how many VFR only pilots have and USE a night rating?

About half of my non-training hours between getting my PPL and
Instrument Rating were at night. I prefer flying at night.

No, it just has to be under VFR weather conditions. You can fly it IFR if
you want to.


You're right. I never read it that closely.

What's the point then? I figured that (when I thought it was UNDER VFR) it
would show experience navigating visually outside the system (though you could
use flight following). I'd want to see a flight UNDER VFR, using pilotage, to
show that kind of expeirence.

Otherwise, what difference does it make whether it's VFR or IFR? (note there's
no IFR XC requirement)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

No, it just has to be under VFR weather conditions. You can fly it IFR if
you want to.


You're right. I never read it that closely.

What's the point then? I figured that (when I thought it was UNDER VFR)
it
would show experience navigating visually outside the system (though you
could
use flight following). I'd want to see a flight UNDER VFR, using
pilotage, to
show that kind of expeirence.

Otherwise, what difference does it make whether it's VFR or IFR? (note
there's
no IFR XC requirement)

I guess under VFR conditions, you at least have to look out the window.
But I've never really understood the point of the training XC requirements
for the commercial certificate.

--Gary


Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
To the above
cautions, I'd add: learning how to detect clouds (with and without city
lights underneath) and *really* listening to the current reports from
Fligh****ch. A/FD reading skills are also important - both the airports I
used have traps for occasional night fliers.

Hello David,

Please elaborate-- what airports, what traps, and what information in the
A/FD is useful in avoiding those traps?

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ