SeeYou Mobile: How Steep the Learning Curve?

I always hate to confirm my incompetence even when others already
suspect. But I don' t have the time or patience to learn how to
configure and use SeeYou Mobile on my own.

I've been playing with it for a couple of weeks on an eBay iPAQ 3950
series because although Glide Navigator II does most of what I need,
there are some features I wish it had (e.g., topo maps, final glide
over terrain). SeeYou Mobile reminds me of the first time I tried to
use Photoshop: incredible power and capabilty but about as intuitive
and user friendly as the cockpit of a 747 (and requiring nearly the
same training). I'm nowhere close to having the two map screens
configured to my satisfaction much less being comfortable with half
the things that pop up when my finger taps the screen deliberately or
accidently. I'm playing with it on public transportation to/from work
so the jostling and bumpiness add to the problem, although not
anywhere near as much as being in the cockpit will.

Moreover, do pilots actually use this without the stylus, using only
their fingertips as the input device? I saw a note in the user manual
about selecting TPs for a task using the Windows input screen before
launch. That won't work here in the U.S. where tasks are changed in
the air with minutes to go before the gate opens, though I'm finding
ways to build a task (albeit with the stylus) without the virtual
keyboard.

And the developer touts the benefits of comparing achieved L/D with
required L/D. Great once you're on final glide but not helpful when
setting it up unless I'm missing something, and that means adding
still more nav boxes to the screen.

It also seems buggy. I often freeze the map display in sim mode though
I can usually still use the menu to save my config settings and exit
without losing the map layouts I've laboriously been building.

Pilots claim to be using SeeYou Mobile in contests (although I hear
stories of year-long ramp ups). Does anyone have a cheat sheet for how
they've set up their map screens? Tips and tricks for flying with it?
Shortcuts/hot keys for the most commonly required tasks? Shortest
paths to key data elements or functions? I've pored through forum
postings and gleaned certain things (e.g., using Map2 exclusively as
the final glide screen with large nav boxes) but I guess the real
secrets are being retained by those who've spent a year or two coming
up to speed.

There's a tongue-in-cheek tone in my posting, but also real
frustration. I'm originally an engineer, computer literate, work in
technology every day, and use many applications like Photoshop that
aren't exactly designed for novices. Yet SeeYou Mobile seems to be the
type of app that one must dedicate months and months to--including a
lot of practice this winter on the sim--to even have a prayer of using
next season. At the current rate, I'm not likely to pay to register my
eval copy before deciding I just can't risk spending too much time in
cockpit trying to sort out a problem when approaching a turnpoint or
on a dicey final glide.

I sat across the lunch table today from another experienced contest
pilot to demo what I'd learned so far. After a couple of soft resets
when the map screens froze, I was able to show him my main map screen.
Between the two of us, however, we triggered enough accidental zooms,
pop ups, wind menus, and the like that we were left passing the PDA
back and forth by its edges gingerly, as if it were a bomb.

By comparison, although GNII has many fewer functions and features,
it's practically idiot proof, can be used by someone without the user
manual almost from day 1, and hardly ever leaves you more than one
finger tap away from the main nav screen. I'm left wondering if SeeYou
Mobile is mostly popular with gadget freaks who would rather play with
technology than fly.

OK, SeeYou Mobile fans, let me have it!

Chip Bearden

Chip Bearden wrote:
I always hate to confirm my incompetence even when others already
suspect. But I don' t have the time or patience to learn how to
configure and use SeeYou Mobile on my own.


OK, SeeYou Mobile fans, let me have it!

Chip Bearden

Sorry I have no advice for you regarding SeeYou. I fly with many guys who
love it and are quite adept in its use. They'll probably be siging in soon to
help.

I was wondering tho'

Have you looked at XCSoar?
Its an open-source package that I have played with a bit but have not flown
yet. I have v.5.0 (current 5.1.2) and it is quite comparable to SeeYou and
WinPilot in many ways. Very stable on an HP 2215.

Some info linx:
XCSOAR Forum http://www.nabble.com/xcsoar-user-f3437.html
its on sourceforge :
http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...roup_id=141663

I think its worth a look.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...aring/200711/1

On Nov 8, 4:23 pm, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" u33403@uwe wrote:
Chip Bearden wrote:
I always hate to confirm my incompetence even when others already
suspect. But I don' t have the time or patience to learn how to
configure and use SeeYou Mobile on my own.

OK, SeeYou Mobile fans, let me have it!

Chip Bearden

Sorry I have no advice for you regarding SeeYou. I fly with many guys who
love it and are quite adept in its use. They'll probably be siging in soon to
help.

I was wondering tho'

Have you looked at XCSoar?
Its an open-source package that I have played with a bit but have not flown
yet. I have v.5.0 (current 5.1.2) and it is quite comparable to SeeYou and
WinPilot in many ways. Very stable on an HP 2215.

Some info linx:
XCSOAR Forumhttp://www.nabble.com/xcsoar-user-f3437.html
its on sourceforge :http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...roup_id=141663

I think its worth a look.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/soaring/200711/1

Can't say about See You. XCSoar took me half a season to get dialed
so it did me the most good. The SINGLE most important function I use
is knowing what runways I have in range. All else is 'nice to have'.

Jim

Chip,

I'll try to give you a quick overview of my experiences with CU mobile
and the next time you see me at Blairstown, come ask. I fly the Grob
3S.

I have been using seeyou mobile for several years now and like it a
bunch. I don't fiddle with it much in flight, most setup is done on
the ground.



On Nov 8, 5:47 pm, Chip Bearden wrote:

Moreover, do pilots actually use this without the stylus, using only
their fingertips as the input device? I saw a note in the user manual
about selecting TPs for a task using the Windows input screen before
launch. That won't work here in the U.S. where tasks are changed in
the air with minutes to go before the gate opens, though I'm finding
ways to build a task (albeit with the stylus) without the virtual
keyboard.


Rarely do I need to stylus. Tasks are created or edited using a
finger and the pull down list of turnpoints.
Edit Area radius with the +/- buttons.


And the developer touts the benefits of comparing achieved L/D with
required L/D. Great once you're on final glide but not helpful when
setting it up unless I'm missing something, and that means adding
still more nav boxes to the screen.

No, they display L/D needed for the landing points on the map and 1
nav box showing L/D current. Compare and you're golden.

It also seems buggy. I often freeze the map display in sim mode though
I can usually still use the menu to save my config settings and exit
without losing the map layouts I've laboriously been building.

I have only had 1 bad freeze bug and that is under the following
conditions.

You have the "Assigned Area" checkbox checked for both the start and
finish cylinder. This is a bug that CU is working on.

Otherwise it's been pretty stable.


Pilots claim to be using SeeYou Mobile in contests (although I hear
stories of year-long ramp ups). Does anyone have a cheat sheet for how
they've set up their map screens? Tips and tricks for flying with it?
Shortcuts/hot keys for the most commonly required tasks? Shortest
paths to key data elements or functions? I've pored through forum
postings and gleaned certain things (e.g., using Map2 exclusively as
the final glide screen with large nav boxes) but I guess the real
secrets are being retained by those who've spent a year or two coming
up to speed.

Picking the nav boxes that you want has been the biggest hassle for
me.

There are not really many pages that you need to get to in flight
other than the main pages, which are cycled by the left/right
buttons.

The addition pages I go to are
1) the task page (set to one of the 4 hardware buttons)
2) the flight properties page (altimeter setting, bugs, ballast,
etc)
3) the fly direct page

I have a hardware button to turn on/off the topo, because it is
distracting most of the time.
I also keep the "thermal assistant" off.

For Assigned area tasks (TAT) just tap the screen to adjust the
turnpoint location.

The biggest tip is to not allow draging the "Symbols" like the final
glide or wind vector. This reduces screen touch screwups.

Maybe I should just list the actual in air tasks that I use SeeYou
for:

1) Navigation backup, where am I.
2) Show landing spots that I can glide to. they show up in yellow or
green,
3) show me the wind guesstimate
4) tell me the local ground elevation (it's pretty accurate)
5) give me bearing, distance and arrival altitude to a destination,
I have to select the destination

6) change MC, ballast or bugs
7) manage tasks (this is the big one and it takes most of the
interaction)

7.1) press the start button on your last exit of the cyclinder
7.2) add, delete, change or edit turnpoints - work the "task page"
7.3) move TAT points within the circle.

seeyou will then tell you all kinds of things like how much time it
predicts that you will take to finish. How much time is left before
the min time, your XC speed so far, etc. It will also predict how
much altitude you need to finish.

Later I can email you my setup file and you can see how I have the nav
boxes set up.


snip
Chip Bearden

See comments inline:

Rarely do I need to stylus. Tasks are created or edited using a
finger and the pull down list of turnpoints.

I used SeeYou to open my GNII .dat file that includes ~35 contest
turnpoints plus another 200 waypoints. Then I created the SeeYou .cup
file and moved it to SeeYou Mobile. Now when I want to create a task,
all 235 waypoints show up on the task pulldown list. GNII allows me to
select from only the 35 actual turnpoints for a task but gives me all
235 to select from for "go to". Can I set SeeYou up the same way?

And the developer touts the benefits of comparing achieved L/D with
required L/D. Great once you're on final glide but not helpful when
setting it up unless I'm missing something, and that means adding
still more nav boxes to the screen.

No, they display L/D needed for the landing points on the map and 1
nav box showing L/D current. Compare and you're golden.

I'm climbing at 2 kts. in a thermal coming up on glide path. My L/D is
infinite. So I need more nav boxes to do the normal "how far above/
below glide path given a destination, wind, and MC setting"
calculation before I can roll out and start monitoring current vs.
required L/D. Or am I missing something? I don't want to have to be
cruising to see if I can make it to various waypoints. I've set my
waypoint text lines up to show arrival height for now, plus colors.

It also seems buggy. I often freeze the map display in sim mode though
I can usually still use the menu to save my config settings and exit
without losing the map layouts I've laboriously been building.

I have only had 1 bad freeze bug and that is under the following
conditions. snip

I've had map screens freeze 3 or 4 times just in the past day during
sim mode and the entire app freeze the PDA when playing back a flight.
I've read the postings re the Assigned Area bug but that's not the
problem. Are "simulator" and "playback" modes less solid than navigate
mode?

snip

Picking the nav boxes that you want has been the biggest hassle for
me.

Agreed. I've got the user manual PDF open on my PC together with the
PDA and it's still a chore. The built in "help" is great but I can see
situations where I'm in the cockpit reading the help file and trying
to stay out of trouble.

There are not really many pages that you need to get to in flight
other than the main pages, which are cycled by the left/right
buttons.

The addition pages I go to are
1) the task page (set to one of the 4 hardware buttons)
2) the flight properties page (altimeter setting, bugs, ballast,
etc)
3) the fly direct page

Yes, I like these features.

I have a hardware button to turn on/off the topo, because it is
distracting most of the time.

Haven't tried that; sounds good.

I also keep the "thermal assistant" off.

The thermal assistant is one reason I'm looking at new software!

For Assigned area tasks (TAT) just tap the screen to adjust the
turnpoint location.

In my cockpit, tapping the screen happens often when I'm trying to
change the zoom or change screens due to rough air, what with having
the PDA on the panel and my long arms. I'm scared to death I'll tap
this thing and reconfigure it or lose the screen I want and have to
spend minutes getting back where I want. Right now what seems to
happen most of the time is changing the destination waypoint
accidentally.

The biggest tip is to not allow draging the "Symbols" like the final
glide or wind vector. This reduces screen touch screwups.

This might help. I guess I can also remove the "speed to fly" symbol
since that's on the LNAV anyway, and the north arrow, and the glide
path symbol (also on the LNAV and don't need if I've got the right nav
boxes.

Maybe I should just list the actual in air tasks that I use SeeYou
for:

1) Navigation backup, where am I.
Same with GNII
2) Show landing spots that I can glide to. they show up in yellow or
green,
Same with GNII
3) show me the wind guesstimate
Same with GNII
4) tell me the local ground elevation (it's pretty accurate)
I like this feature, which I don't have
5) give me bearing, distance and arrival altitude to a destination,
Same with GNII
I have to select the destination

6) change MC, ballast or bugs
7) manage tasks (this is the big one and it takes most of the
interaction)

7.1) press the start button on your last exit of the cyclinder
7.2) add, delete, change or edit turnpoints - work the "task page"
7.3) move TAT points within the circle.
All as per GNII
seeyou will then tell you all kinds of things like how much time it
predicts that you will take to finish. How much time is left before
the min time, your XC speed so far, etc. It will also predict how
much altitude you need to finish.

SeeYou Mobile has some nice features GNII lacks. Some are small but
important; e.g., being able to show airspeed in knots but task speed
in mph (GNII forces you to pick one or the other). Also more powerful
comparison of glide to turnpoint vs. glide to finish at the same time.

Later I can email you my setup file and you can see how I have the nav
boxes set up.

Love to see. jnbearden at aol dot com. I'll chat with you next
time I see you. Thanks!

Chip Bearden

On Nov 8, 7:26 pm, Chip Bearden wrote:
See comments inline:

Rarely do I need to stylus. Tasks are created or edited using a
finger and the pull down list of turnpoints.

I used SeeYou to open my GNII .dat file that includes ~35 contest
turnpoints plus another 200 waypoints. Then I created the SeeYou .cup
file and moved it to SeeYou Mobile. Now when I want to create a task,
all 235 waypoints show up on the task pulldown list. GNII allows me to
select from only the 35 actual turnpoints for a task but gives me all
235 to select from for "go to". Can I set SeeYou up the same way?

And the developer touts the benefits of comparing achieved L/D with
required L/D. Great once you're on final glide but not helpful when
setting it up unless I'm missing something, and that means adding
still more nav boxes to the screen.

No, they display L/D needed for the landing points on the map and 1
nav box showing L/D current. Compare and you're golden.

I'm climbing at 2 kts. in a thermal coming up on glide path. My L/D is
infinite. So I need more nav boxes to do the normal "how far above/
below glide path given a destination, wind, and MC setting"
calculation before I can roll out and start monitoring current vs.
required L/D. Or am I missing something? I don't want to have to be
cruising to see if I can make it to various waypoints. I've set my
waypoint text lines up to show arrival height for now, plus colors.



It also seems buggy. I often freeze the map display in sim mode though
I can usually still use the menu to save my config settings and exit
without losing the map layouts I've laboriously been building.

I have only had 1 bad freeze bug and that is under the following
conditions. snip

I've had map screens freeze 3 or 4 times just in the past day during
sim mode and the entire app freeze the PDA when playing back a flight.
I've read the postings re the Assigned Area bug but that's not the
problem. Are "simulator" and "playback" modes less solid than navigate
mode?

snip



Picking the nav boxes that you want has been the biggest hassle for
me.

Agreed. I've got the user manual PDF open on my PC together with the
PDA and it's still a chore. The built in "help" is great but I can see
situations where I'm in the cockpit reading the help file and trying
to stay out of trouble.

There are not really many pages that you need to get to in flight
other than the main pages, which are cycled by the left/right
buttons.

The addition pages I go to are
1) the task page (set to one of the 4 hardware buttons)
2) the flight properties page (altimeter setting, bugs, ballast,
etc)
3) the fly direct page

Yes, I like these features.

I have a hardware button to turn on/off the topo, because it is
distracting most of the time.

Haven't tried that; sounds good.

I also keep the "thermal assistant" off.

The thermal assistant is one reason I'm looking at new software!

For Assigned area tasks (TAT) just tap the screen to adjust the
turnpoint location.

In my cockpit, tapping the screen happens often when I'm trying to
change the zoom or change screens due to rough air, what with having
the PDA on the panel and my long arms. I'm scared to death I'll tap
this thing and reconfigure it or lose the screen I want and have to
spend minutes getting back where I want. Right now what seems to
happen most of the time is changing the destination waypoint
accidentally.

The biggest tip is to not allow draging the "Symbols" like the final
glide or wind vector. This reduces screen touch screwups.

This might help. I guess I can also remove the "speed to fly" symbol
since that's on the LNAV anyway, and the north arrow, and the glide
path symbol (also on the LNAV and don't need if I've got the right nav
boxes.

Maybe I should just list the actual in air tasks that I use SeeYou
for:

1) Navigation backup, where am I.
Same with GNII
2) Show landing spots that I can glide to. they show up in yellow or
green,
Same with GNII
3) show me the wind guesstimate
Same with GNII
4) tell me the local ground elevation (it's pretty accurate)

I like this feature, which I don't have





5) give me bearing, distance and arrival altitude to a destination,
Same with GNII
I have to select the destination

6) change MC, ballast or bugs
7) manage tasks (this is the big one and it takes most of the
interaction)

7.1) press the start button on your last exit of the cyclinder
7.2) add, delete, change or edit turnpoints - work the "task page"
7.3) move TAT points within the circle.
All as per GNII
seeyou will then tell you all kinds of things like how much time it
predicts that you will take to finish. How much time is left before
the min time, your XC speed so far, etc. It will also predict how
much altitude you need to finish.

SeeYou Mobile has some nice features GNII lacks. Some are small but
The best tutorial I got on CU was when I bought it at an SSA
convention a few years ago.

One feature I like about CU mobile is that they sold the CD.
I also own a license for GNII but I get charged for every
installation. I have a few PDA'sso I didn't care for that much.

GNII was easy to learn CU took a little time to figure out the best
configuration for me.
Now that I have experience with both I much prefer CU.

CU is somewhat like any modern computer system with a lot of choices.
Find what works for you and ignore the rest. It does become intuitive
after a while

As an example;
I have found the topo maps too hard to see or read so I don't use
them. For a while I did have them set up to toggle on and off but now
I don't do that.
I have one map page set up for thermalling and the other set up for
cruising with the important nav boxes for mode on each map page.

Good luck,
don't give up.
Dan Rihn
WO


important; e.g., being able to show airspeed in knots but task speed
in mph (GNII forces you to pick one or the other). Also more powerful
comparison of glide to turnpoint vs. glide to finish at the same time.

Later I can email you my setup file and you can see how I have the nav
boxes set up.

Love to see. jnbearden at aol dot com. I'll chat with you next
time I see you. Thanks!

Chip Bearden- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't use Mobile in contests because I stopped flying contests around
the time I got it. I did use GNII for several years, however. Remarks
follow.

Chip Bearden wrote:
I'm nowhere close to having the two map screens
configured to my satisfaction

When I got it, I configured one map just like the GNII screen; the other
map was used as a "thermalling screen". It was set to North Up, and
zoomed in so I could see the thermal drift.

As I got familiar with Mobile, I gradually changed the Nav boxes and
waypoint labels to take advantage of Mobile's features.

much less being comfortable with half
the things that pop up when my finger taps the screen deliberately or
accidently. I'm playing with it on public transportation to/from work
so the jostling and bumpiness add to the problem, although not
anywhere near as much as being in the cockpit will.

I don't have any problems like that, but a ridge runner might. I use the
rocker key to switch between the maps and to zoom in/out. I touch the
screen mainly to select a waypoint and look at it's details. If it's
bumpy, I'll grasp the sides of the iPaq with my thumb and middle finger
to dampen the motion, then use my index finger to poke the screen.

Moreover, do pilots actually use this without the stylus, using only
their fingertips as the input device?

I do, but there are a couple infrequently used screens that take more care.


And the developer touts the benefits of comparing achieved L/D with
required L/D. Great once you're on final glide but not helpful when
setting it up unless I'm missing something, and that means adding
still more nav boxes to the screen.

I've tried it a couple of times, don't like doing it that way, and still
use the MC setting with an arrival AGL box.


It also seems buggy. I often freeze the map display in sim mode though
I can usually still use the menu to save my config settings and exit
without losing the map layouts I've laboriously been building.

This is unusual, based my experience (no freezing) and the small number
of complaints about freezing in the user group. Be sure to turn off the
IR beam, as this function can cause the iPaq to run slower and slower
and ... Normally, it's only an issue in bright sunlight.

By comparison, although GNII has many fewer functions and features,
it's practically idiot proof, can be used by someone without the user
manual almost from day 1, and hardly ever leaves you more than one
finger tap away from the main nav screen.

I liked GNII, but it's limits for aggressive recreational flying,
especially in the mountains (and lack of development at the time) and
unfamiliar areas, led me to Mobile. The SeeYou team has been very
responsive to improving the program and I expect them to continue to do
so.

And do try the Thermal Assistant, once you've sorted out the bigger
issues. It's quite useful to me when I need to devote attention to other
things, like stowing the engine, keeping track of nearby gliders, trying
to figure out my next move, and other distractions.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

I am a huge fan of the FREE XCSoar program, its really good.

That said, I recommend you dont start any flight (or sim) without first going into the memory area of the little god-box thing and stopping all other programs, prior to firing up your flightware.

This little tidbit eliminated most of my screen-freeze problems.

Stick with it, they are a great time waster!

bagger

My iPAQ is dedicated to whatever soaring app I end up using; there's
nothing else in memory (I've checked). And the IR port is turned off
although I've only used it indoors so far.

With all the encouragement to "stick with it, it's worth it," I'm
beginning to get the sense that learning to use SeeYou Mobile (or,
from what I understand, WinPilot) may take as long as learning to fly
did originally. Seriously, that's not what I had in mind. I'm
willing to invest time to learn a new technology or application if I
have confidence that it's worth the investment. Much of what has been
touted for SeeYou Mobile so far, however, I've already got in GNII,
which took about one flight to learn to use. Nor am I interested in
using something that requires so much attention in the cockpit that I
have less time to focus on the flying itself.

Here's another example: I'm on the bus this morning into New York
playing with SeeYou Mobile and I push the rocker button to the left to
change map screens. Fine. After a few minutes, though, I notice my
target waypoint has changed. Turns out I'd mis-hit the button and
pushed it up at the same time I pushed left. On the one hand, being
able to change waypoints at any time by scrolling up or down is
whizzy, although I'm not sure how useful it is given the 235 waypoints
I have in my file. On the other hand, I don't want to have to check
the "next waypoint" message every time my hand goes near the iPAQ when
flying in rough air. I also grasp my Compaq 1550 with a couple of
fingers while tapping the screen but I still occasionally hit the
wrong spot. The worst thing that happens with GNII, however, is that
info on a waypoint pops up, then disappears in a few seconds if I
don't tap "Go To". It's self correcting, in another words. My
impression so far is that any of a dozen different small tapping
errors can alter settings in SeeYou Mobile. I know some can be
disabled during configuration, but shouldn't the default set up favor
new users?

I'm still concerned about being able to easily and very quickly enter
tasks without using the stylus, and play the "what if" games required
in a U.S. MAT task where you experiment with different next turnpoints
to time your arrival home. Apparently U.S. contest rules and tasking
are different enough in that respect as to render useless or
inconvenient what would be perfectly acceptable in other countries
(e.g., entering the task before launch).

I've been playing with this package for nearly two weeks now and am
increasingly disquieted by the thought that although it does
everything I want, I won't be able to use it in the real world. I've
actually had several contest pilots say that offline in the past 24
hours. The term that comes to mind, perhaps unfairly, is "a solution
looking for a problem." Is SeeYou Mobile overkill? Will savvy soaring
pilots soon be able to brag that they're "certified power users of
SeeYou Mobile" along with having their 1000 km diplome?

Keep those comments and suggestions coming.

Chip Bearden

Chip,

I've been using GPS_Log for 2 or 3 years (great stuff!), and I eventually
switched to SeeYou Mobile for the simple reason to have the data files in
the same format as PC SeeYou. That was about 3 years/400h ago.

The changeover took me significantly less than an afternoon, and the fine
tuning another flight or two. Since then, it just runs and does what I want.
Just wondering - where exactly do I get the 747 rating ? :-)

If you don't want a function on a button (like scrolling through the WP
list), just disable it in the setting menue.
The whole benefit of SeeYou Mobile is that you configure it to exactly what
you need on the ground, and then inflight you just use it. I haven't done
any configuration inflight so far - that would mean using the stylus, and
having the eyes in the cockpit too long.

The only input from me during most of the flights are
- zoom in/out
- change page
- change target WP or retrieve info on target WP

The nav boxes I have set are
- bearing to target
- distance to target
- ground speed
- required L/D
- actual L/D

When climbing to the glidepath for final, required L/D tells me when I can
leave that thermal alone.

Although I have the terrain data, I very rarely use the terrain on display
(I actually can see it quite nicely just outside the canopy :-). I only
display airfields/outlanding fields, mountain passes and airspace.

Speed tasks and AAT's are no problem at all, and even a change of the task
inflight wouldn't be a big hassle (although in France it's done on the grid,
sometimes sitting in the glider just before takeoff). I have no experience
with MAT's (is that those stupid cats craddles?).

But at the end, either you'll like it or not. I don't see a big performance
advantage of SeeYou Mobile over GPS_Log, but as I said, it's an advantage in
convenience.

Bert

"Chip Bearden" wrote in message
oups.com...
My iPAQ is dedicated to whatever soaring app I end up using; there's
nothing else in memory (I've checked). And the IR port is turned off
although I've only used it indoors so far.

With all the encouragement to "stick with it, it's worth it," I'm
beginning to get the sense that learning to use SeeYou Mobile (or,
from what I understand, WinPilot) may take as long as learning to fly
did originally. Seriously, that's not what I had in mind. I'm
willing to invest time to learn a new technology or application if I
have confidence that it's worth the investment. Much of what has been
touted for SeeYou Mobile so far, however, I've already got in GNII,
which took about one flight to learn to use. Nor am I interested in
using something that requires so much attention in the cockpit that I
have less time to focus on the flying itself.

Here's another example: I'm on the bus this morning into New York
playing with SeeYou Mobile and I push the rocker button to the left to
change map screens. Fine. After a few minutes, though, I notice my
target waypoint has changed. Turns out I'd mis-hit the button and
pushed it up at the same time I pushed left. On the one hand, being
able to change waypoints at any time by scrolling up or down is
whizzy, although I'm not sure how useful it is given the 235 waypoints
I have in my file. On the other hand, I don't want to have to check
the "next waypoint" message every time my hand goes near the iPAQ when
flying in rough air. I also grasp my Compaq 1550 with a couple of
fingers while tapping the screen but I still occasionally hit the
wrong spot. The worst thing that happens with GNII, however, is that
info on a waypoint pops up, then disappears in a few seconds if I
don't tap "Go To". It's self correcting, in another words. My
impression so far is that any of a dozen different small tapping
errors can alter settings in SeeYou Mobile. I know some can be
disabled during configuration, but shouldn't the default set up favor
new users?

I'm still concerned about being able to easily and very quickly enter
tasks without using the stylus, and play the "what if" games required
in a U.S. MAT task where you experiment with different next turnpoints
to time your arrival home. Apparently U.S. contest rules and tasking
are different enough in that respect as to render useless or
inconvenient what would be perfectly acceptable in other countries
(e.g., entering the task before launch).

I've been playing with this package for nearly two weeks now and am
increasingly disquieted by the thought that although it does
everything I want, I won't be able to use it in the real world. I've
actually had several contest pilots say that offline in the past 24
hours. The term that comes to mind, perhaps unfairly, is "a solution
looking for a problem." Is SeeYou Mobile overkill? Will savvy soaring
pilots soon be able to brag that they're "certified power users of
SeeYou Mobile" along with having their 1000 km diplome?

Keep those comments and suggestions coming.

Chip Bearden