Flight of two, IFR

I fly F-16s with the Air Force. There are essentially three methods of formation flying through IFR. The first is by maintaining fingertip formation (roughly 3 foot wingtip separation). Flight lead flies off his instruments while wingmen fly visually off him since you can usually see far enough to maintain visual inside of a cloud. This is normally done as a 2-ship. There are also specific procedures for deconflicting if you lose the visual. The second is instrument trail where you take off with some briefed time delay and every flight member calls their altitude over the intraflight frequency every 5000 feet during the climb and calls every turn. This is only done on departures and flight members are not allowed to be at the same altitude until in VMC and visual with each other. The final one is most common in fighters which is called a radar trail. This is where every flight member locks the one in front of them with their radar and deconflicts based on that.

On 12/18/2019 18:00, wrote:
I fly F-16s with the Air Force. There are essentially three methods of formation flying through IFR. The first is by maintaining fingertip formation (roughly 3 foot wingtip separation). Flight lead flies off his instruments while wingmen fly visually off him since you can usually see far enough to maintain visual inside of a cloud. This is normally done as a 2-ship. There are also specific procedures for deconflicting if you lose the visual. The second is instrument trail where you take off with some briefed time delay and every flight member calls their altitude over the intraflight frequency every 5000 feet during the climb and calls every turn. This is only done on departures and flight members are not allowed to be at the same altitude until in VMC and visual with each other. The final one is most common in fighters which is called a radar trail. This is where every flight member locks the one in front of them with their radar and deconflicts based on that.

Like anyone cares.

"Dave S" wrote in message
hlink.net...

However.. practically.. WHO is going to be responsible for
separation on a formation flight if it goes IMC?


Responsibility for separation within the flight rests with the flight,
whether that is practical or not. Responsibility for separation between the
flight and other IFR aircraft rests with ATC.



The military has procedures that
address this.. i am curious to know if the US civil sector does, and
I've not seen anything pertaining to it..


US ATC procedures do not distinguish between civil or military with regard
to formation flights. The FARs prohibit formation flights by aircraft
carrying passengers for hire. Formation flights by civil VFR aircraft are
not uncommon. I issued an IFR clearance to a civil formation just once,
that I can recall. It was during the EAA convention, a group of T-34s
wanted to get away from OSH to practice their routine, the weather was MVFR.



FAA Order 7110.65P Air Traffic Control

Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-13. FORMATION FLIGHTS

Control formation flights as a single aircraft. When individual control is
requested, issue advisory information which will assist the pilots in
attaining separation. When pilot reports indicate separation has been
established, issue control instructions as required.

NOTE-
1. Separation responsibility between aircraft within the formation during
transition to individual control rests with the pilots concerned until
standard separation has been attained.

2. Formation join-up and breakaway will be conducted in VFR weather
conditions unless prior authorization has been obtained from ATC or
individual control has been approved.



Chapter 5. Radar

Section 5. Radar Separation

5-5-8. ADDITIONAL SEPARATION FOR FORMATION FLIGHTS

Because of the distance allowed between formation aircraft and lead
aircraft, additional separation is necessary to ensure the periphery of the
formation is adequately separated from other aircraft, adjacent airspace, or
obstructions. Provide supplemental separation for formation flights as
follows:

a. Separate a standard formation flight by adding 1 mile to the
appropriate radar separation minima.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Formation Flights, Para 2-1-13.
FAAO 7110.65, Application, Para 5-5-1.
FAAO 7110.65, Separation, Para 7-7-3.
P/CG Term- Formation Flight.

b. Separate two standard formation flights from each other by adding 2
miles to the appropriate separation minima.

c. Separate a nonstandard formation flight by applying the appropriate
separation minima to the perimeter of the airspace encompassing the
nonstandard formation or from the outermost aircraft of the nonstandard
formation whichever applies.

d. If necessary for separation between a nonstandard formation and other
aircraft, assign an appropriate beacon code to each aircraft in the
formation or to the first and last aircraft in-trail.

NOTE-
The additional separation provided in para 5-5-8, Additional Separation
for Formation Flights, is not normally added to wake turbulence separation
when a formation is following a heavier aircraft since none of the formation
aircraft are likely to be closer to the heavier aircraft than the lead
aircraft (to which the prescribed wake turbulence separation has been
applied).



§ 91.111 Operating near other aircraft.

(a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to another aircraft as to
create a collision hazard.

(b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by
arrangement with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in
formation flight.

"Doug" wrote in message
om...
Is it possible for a "flight of two" to file and fly an IFR flight plan?

I took a handoff on what I though was a single RV8 headed IFR from Lexigton
KY to Lawrenceville GA. My flight progress strip said "8/RV8/G" in the type
box. Thinking some controller had made a bad URET data entry up in Indy
Center (a typical situation since ZID doesn't use paper strips and makes
flight data errors frequently), I queried the pilot on inital contact.

"N123, I think we've fumbled your flight data between Centers. I'm showing
you as a flight of 8 RV8's. Verify you are a single ship?"

"Negative Atlanta, we're a flight of 8."

"Err, OK... how far back is the tail end Charlie?"

"Center, the entire flight is within 100 yards..."

I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for
landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads? Another day at the office or
do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival?

Chip, ZTL

"Chip Jones" wrote in message
k.net...

I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for
landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads? Another day at the office
or do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival?


There's no differentiation between civil and military with regard to
formation flights. They can land as a formation or individually, the choice
is theirs.

"Chip Jones" wrote in message nk.net...
"Doug" wrote in message
om...
charming anecdote snipped

I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for
landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads? Another day at the office or
do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival?

Chip, ZTL


Chip, no doubt it was another day at the office. LZU is home for a
great EAA chapter and one of the most active...if not THE most
active...RV formation teams in the country.

They have a very formal school and procedure to bring newbies
along...err, newbies would be like me!

Jim Harper
RV 8A N888FP
Flying off the hours!

Chip Jones wrote:


I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for
landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads?

Yep, cleared to land.


Another day at the office or
do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival?

Some land as a flight, some break up.

In article t,
Chip Jones wrote:
I took a handoff on what I though was a single RV8 headed IFR from Lexigton
KY to Lawrenceville GA. My flight progress strip said "8/RV8/G" in the type
box. Thinking some controller had made a bad URET data entry up in Indy

Knowing how much RV guys like formation flying, I'd be more inclined
to worry if I saw a flight strip that claimed to be a SINGLE RV going
anywhere.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

The military does it all the time.

Tom
"Doug" wrote in message
om...
Is it possible for a "flight of two" to file and fly an IFR flight plan?