Checklist

Sure, I'll take the bet anytime, you see this is an old, old aviation joke.
If this happens while taxiing, the plane goes down. the wheels stay right
on the ground. The gear may "retract" but the don't go "up". HeHe.

And do you know what kind of gum a pilot chews when he goes through the
list. Ans: Rigley's Checklist gum

--
Regards, BobF.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Bob F. wrote:
Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no matter
what
you do with the switches.


Do you want to bet? All it takes is for a microswitch to unload for a
second and the interlock is no longer part of the equation. While I can't
think of a specific episode while taxiing, I do recall a case where the
pilot selected gear up just before starting his take off roll. He
apparently thought it would look cool for the gear to suck up the instant
he took off. Unfortunately he didn't lift off cleanly and skipped
instead. Oops!



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Bob F. wrote:
Sure, I'll take the bet anytime, you see this is an old, old aviation
joke. If this happens while taxiing, the plane goes down. the wheels
stay right on the ground. The gear may "retract" but the don't go "up".
HeHe.

And do you know what kind of gum a pilot chews when he goes through the
list. Ans: Rigley's Checklist gum


So YOU'RE the guy who was sticking that gum up under the panels of our
airplanes huh????????
:-)))

--
Dudley Henriques

I think I know. In the mid '70s sometime, I was giving a BFR to a guy in an
Arrow. Just before rotation and liftoff, he quickly reached over and
flipped up the gear lever. It was so quick, I was petrified an hypnotized
at the same time. After we got out out of the area I asked him in a real
stern voice, "What did you just do!". He explained how the squat switch
worked, like I didn't know, an continued to tell me how he likes to get that
all out of the way so he can concentrate on reducing MAP and RPM, turning,
etc. This guy was doing this for the last 200 hours in his Arrow. We
continued the discussion when we got on the ground. I also changed my
behavior to always be ready for the hand coming over with any pilot in a
retract gear airplane. I happened so quick.

This brings to mind a point to remember for you ATP guys in training. The
examiner does not like to see your hand in any position where he has to
wonder what you are about to do. Don't rest your hand on ANY control. If
you are going to exercise it. Move your hand over, do it, then return to
some neutral position. This really is a CRM tactic so that the Pilot Flying
(PF) and Pilot Not Flying (PNF) have no confusion about what's going on.

--
Regards, BobF.
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Bob F." wrote in
:

Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no matter
what you do with the switches.


Though I knew some tit who used to pull the lever up at the start of the
take off roll and rely on the prox switch on the gear to do the rest for
him.

Guess what?


Bertie

"Bob F." wrote in
:

I think I know. In the mid '70s sometime, I was giving a BFR to a guy
in an Arrow. Just before rotation and liftoff, he quickly reached
over and flipped up the gear lever. It was so quick, I was petrified
an hypnotized at the same time. After we got out out of the area I
asked him in a real stern voice, "What did you just do!". He
explained how the squat switch worked, like I didn't know, an
continued to tell me how he likes to get that all out of the way so he
can concentrate on reducing MAP and RPM, turning, etc. This guy was
doing this for the last 200 hours in his Arrow. We continued the
discussion when we got on the ground. I also changed my behavior to
always be ready for the hand coming over with any pilot in a retract
gear airplane. I happened so quick.

This brings to mind a point to remember for you ATP guys in training.
The examiner does not like to see your hand in any position where he
has to wonder what you are about to do. Don't rest your hand on ANY
control. If you are going to exercise it. Move your hand over, do
it, then return to some neutral position. This really is a CRM tactic
so that the Pilot Flying (PF) and Pilot Not Flying (PNF) have no
confusion about what's going on.

I'll second this. "arming" your hand has the added disadvantage of aming
your mind to hear what you expect to hear rather than what's actuall
been said. So if the non handling pilot has his hand on the flap lever
in anticiaption of the next logical command, which might be the next
stage of flaps, he's more likely to make the error of moving the handle
regardelss of what the other guy might say next. some of the saddest
word you might ever hear in an airplane are "Oh sorry, I thought you
said."



Bertie

Bob F. wrote:
Don't rest your hand on ANY
control. If you are going to exercise it. Move your hand over, do it,
then return to some neutral position. This really is a CRM tactic so
that the Pilot Flying (PF) and Pilot Not Flying (PNF) have no confusion
about what's going on.


This is interesting Bob. I'm involved with a human factors work group on
accident prevention as we speak.
Our venue of course isn't dealing with multi-engine CRM but rather the
aerobatic demonstration scenario. We're attempting to come up with
suggestions to present to the representative governing bodies that will
make our venue safer.
I'd be interested to know if your above comment includes throttle, or in
your case, (throttles) when the aircraft is at and below pattern altitude.
We of course are dealing with single pilot CRM.


--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 21, 8:13 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:


I used
"Every good pilot must take off fine check"

and

"Every good pilot must land fine check"

--
Dudley Henriques

OK.. help me out...

those mean..?

That's also an interesting question. I don't know what your experience or
training is, with respect, but in an airliner, the last time the PF has his
hand on the throttle is at V1 at which point you remove your hand off the
throttle and place it, now both of your hands, on the yoke. It's not until
much later into the flight that the PF will ever touch the throttle again.
All commands are directed to the PNF to do. This is a curious ritual on
take off, and varies slightly by airline manual. Here's how it goes. At
stop position on the runway, the PF places his hand on the throttles,
advances them part way to see that all engines are coming alive with roughly
the same power and then says to the PNF, "Set Take Off Thrust" at which
point the PNF has his hand(s) over the PF's hand and pushed the throttle to
the predefined calculated power setting. The PF does NOT look at the
settings and is concentrating on the take off. The PNF will concentrate on
engine settings and will make very fine settings until V1. The PNF is also
watching other controls and will call out any anomalies to the PF. He will
not take action by himself. The PNF will call out a cross check at 80 Kts
and the PF will confirm (his AS is active and reading 80kts). The PNF will
call out the V1 speed and the PF will pull his hand off the throttles, to
the yoke. The reason for this is to show that the PF (Captain has command)
and can abort before V1. Past V1, you take off no matter what. The PNF
calls Vr and the PF rotates, and targets V2. The PNF calls positive rate,
the PF says gear up and the PNF brings the gear up. The climb out is at V2
and the PNF calls 400 ft, The PF call for new specific power settings and
flap settings, the PNF confirms and reduces power, makes the adjustment,
and adjusts flaps. It goes quick. That's what happens below pattern.

You can see the sequence is rigid and regimented and at no time is anyone
doing anything out of sequence. The main part of the flight is also loaded
with paperwork. A similar ritual is performed on approach and landing. One
ritual that is not taught in GA that the 121 guys do, is the sterile cockpit
rule. I'd also like to see more GA rules about getting everyone in the
airplane when close to airports to look for traffic. This is no time for
chit-chat.

I also spent a lot of time at Moffet Field in their Human Factors center and
I was also a member of RTCA identifying human factor problems, writing MOPS
and setting standards. I worked on designing the Aviation Telecommunication
Network around the world. This is a post ACARS II network. We never could
figure out if you had a server on the ground and you were receiving a data
file in say a laptop in your airplane, is that uploading or downloading?
And a more serious problem...with enough laptops, can you receive enough
bits to cause the airplane to go over gross? ;-)

Too much rambling here. Did I give you a glimpse of the airline world?


--
Regards, BobF.
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
news
Bob F. wrote:
Don't rest your hand on ANY control. If you are going to exercise it.
Move your hand over, do it, then return to some neutral position. This
really is a CRM tactic so that the Pilot Flying (PF) and Pilot Not Flying
(PNF) have no confusion about what's going on.


This is interesting Bob. I'm involved with a human factors work group on
accident prevention as we speak.
Our venue of course isn't dealing with multi-engine CRM but rather the
aerobatic demonstration scenario. We're attempting to come up with
suggestions to present to the representative governing bodies that will
make our venue safer.
I'd be interested to know if your above comment includes throttle, or in
your case, (throttles) when the aircraft is at and below pattern altitude.
We of course are dealing with single pilot CRM.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dan wrote:
On Mar 21, 8:13 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I used
"Every good pilot must take off fine check"

and

"Every good pilot must land fine check"

--
Dudley Henriques

OK.. help me out...

those mean..?

ALL; altimeter
GOOD; gas
PILOTS; prop
MUST; mixture
TAKE; trim
OFF; oil pressure,
FINE; flaps
CHECK; cowls, controls, carb ht.

Same on base, replace with LAND; gear

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:252806d9-1056-4209-b52b-
:

On Mar 21, 3:53 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Larry D. Cosby" lcosby at knology dot net wrote in news:3e97f
:



Hi, I was wondering what the acronym GUMPS stood on a landing
checklist.
Larry

Gas Undercarriage Mixture Prop

Never heard the S before.

There used to be CIGARTIP

Which was:

Controls, Instruments, Gas, Altimeter. can't remember the 'R', Trim
'I'
I don't know either and Props

Good one for simple lightplanes is CIGMFT. (Cig means fine tobacco)

Controls Instruments Gas Mixture Flaps Trim.

Betie

Neither of those had a gear check?

Unless R stands for "Retractable?"


Why would you need a gear check for takeoff?


Corporate pilot picks up the newly painted and upholsterd Aero Commander
and didn't check the gear switch.

About half way down the runway (where the bump was) the gear sucks up
and the newly painted belly scapes for a while, but the thing gets
airborne.

Once around the pattern and back to the shop for new belly skin and
more paint.

That's why a gear check for takeoff.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Bob F. wrote:
That's also an interesting question. I don't know what your experience
or training is, with respect, but in an airliner, the last time the PF
has his hand on the throttle is at V1 at which point you remove your
hand off the throttle and place it, now both of your hands, on the
yoke. It's not until much later into the flight that the PF will ever
touch the throttle again. All commands are directed to the PNF to do.
This is a curious ritual on take off, and varies slightly by airline
manual. Here's how it goes. At stop position on the runway, the PF
places his hand on the throttles, advances them part way to see that all
engines are coming alive with roughly the same power and then says to
the PNF, "Set Take Off Thrust" at which point the PNF has his hand(s)
over the PF's hand and pushed the throttle to the predefined calculated
power setting. The PF does NOT look at the settings and is
concentrating on the take off. The PNF will concentrate on engine
settings and will make very fine settings until V1. The PNF is also
watching other controls and will call out any anomalies to the PF. He
will not take action by himself. The PNF will call out a cross check at
80 Kts and the PF will confirm (his AS is active and reading 80kts).
The PNF will call out the V1 speed and the PF will pull his hand off the
throttles, to the yoke. The reason for this is to show that the PF
(Captain has command) and can abort before V1. Past V1, you take off no
matter what. The PNF calls Vr and the PF rotates, and targets V2. The
PNF calls positive rate, the PF says gear up and the PNF brings the gear
up. The climb out is at V2 and the PNF calls 400 ft, The PF call for
new specific power settings and flap settings, the PNF confirms and
reduces power, makes the adjustment, and adjusts flaps. It goes quick.
That's what happens below pattern.

You can see the sequence is rigid and regimented and at no time is
anyone doing anything out of sequence. The main part of the flight is
also loaded with paperwork. A similar ritual is performed on approach
and landing. One ritual that is not taught in GA that the 121 guys do,
is the sterile cockpit rule. I'd also like to see more GA rules about
getting everyone in the airplane when close to airports to look for
traffic. This is no time for chit-chat.

I also spent a lot of time at Moffet Field in their Human Factors center
and I was also a member of RTCA identifying human factor problems,
writing MOPS and setting standards. I worked on designing the Aviation
Telecommunication Network around the world. This is a post ACARS II
network. We never could figure out if you had a server on the ground
and you were receiving a data file in say a laptop in your airplane, is
that uploading or downloading? And a more serious problem...with enough
laptops, can you receive enough bits to cause the airplane to go over
gross? ;-)

Too much rambling here. Did I give you a glimpse of the airline world?


An excellent look indeed. Sounds like you've done some good work in the
flight safety field.

The airline industry I'm sure places the same importance on CRM as we do
dealing with the high performance single pilot environment. The two
venues of course are quite different, each with their own individual
methods for optimizing safety in the cockpit environment; the airline
aspect naturally having to deal with the added crew factor and the pros
and cons of the implied interaction there.

In a way, your environment is even more complicated than ours for this
reason alone. We deal with the interactive relationship between the
conscious and sub conscious as a single pilot attempts to deal with the
extremely high multi-task environment we have in low altitude display
flying where both the macro and micro aspects of this scenario can pile
on causing over task. It's more complicated for your scenario I believe,
because of the added factor of crew interaction where tasking and
sequence responsibility have to be clearly defined.

In our venue, throttle is considered as a prime control and as such
requires the placement of the hand on that control during all operations
at and below pattern altitude.

It goes without saying that in handling high performance military type
single engine airplanes where engine and aerodynamic factors at low
altitudes can require instant power adjustment as a preemptive as well
as a reactionary measure, that having the hand on the throttle is
mandatory to satisfy the flight safety issue.

I have carried this philosophy into my primary and aerobatic instruction
as well and encourage all GA pilots flying single pilot to use this
procedure.

--
Dudley Henriques