(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)

I recently submitted my 2010 Program Letter to my local FSDO, and he
replied with "In reviewing your program letter it was determined that
it needs to be revised", followed by excerpts from 8130.2F 11/5/2004
(page 166). (Alas he did not get specific wrt the needed revisions.)

All I did was take my 2009 program letter and revise it with my 2010
schedule, but with more detail, including place names, locations, and
dates. (I have, of course, requested additional guidance.)

Has anyone else experienced stricter program letter requirements from
their FSDO?

ted/2NO

On Feb 4, 8:51*am, Tuno wrote:
I recently submitted my 2010 Program Letter to my local FSDO, and he
replied with "In reviewing your program letter it was determined that
it needs to be revised", followed by excerpts from 8130.2F 11/5/2004
(page 166). (Alas he did not get specific wrt the needed revisions.)

All I did was take my 2009 program letter and revise it with my 2010
schedule, but with more detail, including place names, locations, and
dates. (I have, of course, requested additional guidance.)

Has anyone else experienced stricter program letter requirements from
their FSDO?

ted/2NO

When I brought my glider into this region, the DAR provided me with a
Form letter he said was used by Denver FSDO. I've been completing one
annually. However, I know other pilots that are submitting other
formats.
http://www.coloradosoaring.org/docs/...r_den_fsdo.pdf

Frank Whiteley

On Feb 4, 8:51*am, Tuno wrote:
I recently submitted my 2010 Program Letter to my local FSDO, and he
replied with "In reviewing your program letter it was determined that
it needs to be revised", followed by excerpts from 8130.2F 11/5/2004
(page 166). (Alas he did not get specific wrt the needed revisions.)

All I did was take my 2009 program letter and revise it with my 2010
schedule, but with more detail, including place names, locations, and
dates. (I have, of course, requested additional guidance.)

Has anyone else experienced stricter program letter requirements from
their FSDO?

ted/2NO

Ted,
Here the URL for some info on this subject from our May 2009
"Towlines" newsletter that might be helpful! Please see page 2...

http://www.abqsoaring.org/news/Towlines_09_05.pdf

Thanks - Renny
Albuquerque Soaring Club

Hi Ted,
Something is going on. I have submitted program letters to the
Nashville FSDO for 8 years running without hearing a word. This
January, within minutes of faxing it I got a call back from a guy at
the FSDO saying he had reviewed the letter and it needed changes.

This guy was very specific. He wanted all references to flying at
'sanctioned events' either removed or the specific dates of the
event(s) added.

I removed the offending wording and refaxed it. No more call backs.
Hope that ends it.

Regards,
Chuck

What a waste of time (ours and the FAAs) and money. I'm sure glad my
glider is old enough to not need an annual program letter!

Wonder if there is any chance the SSA could convince the FAA that
eliminating this bull**** (along with the external number plate
exemption requirement) would be a worthwhile contribution to reducing
the deficit and national debt.

Quick, somebody text Obama!

Kirk
66

Ted et al

Your FSDO dude is a bit behind the times as the most current FAA order
is 8130.2F Change 5 dated 01/15/2010. Check out para. 161 in order to
get started.
I've been told by our local FSDO that older gliders can no longer use
their old "one time" program letter and that the operations
limitations need to reflect the airport from which the glider is flown
and that a yearly program letter must be submitted.
HOWEVER, the local feds have not as yet quoted me book, chaper and
verse of the reg/order that supports their statement. I'm still
working on that but I suspect it can be found in the above mentioned
order.

Zulu

On Feb 4, 1:30*pm, zulu wrote:
Ted et al

Your FSDO dude is a bit behind the times as the most current FAA order
is 8130.2F Change 5 dated 01/15/2010. *Check out para. 161 in order to
get started.
I've been told by our local FSDO that older gliders can no longer use
their old "one time" program letter and that the operations
limitations need to reflect the airport from which the glider is flown
and that a yearly program letter must be submitted.
HOWEVER, the local feds have not as yet quoted me book, chaper and
verse of the reg/order that supports their statement. *I'm still
working on that but I suspect it can be found in the above mentioned
order.

Zulu

Yeah, I can see that coming!

Maybe time to put bogus N numbers on the glider - different on each
side?

But more seriously, has anyone out there been checked by the FAA to
see if they are complying with their program letter? I can just see a
ramp check at a big Sports Class contest!

And what is the penalty? "You can't fly it here." "OK, where's the
Fax machine?".

Speaking of Faxing - what's with that? Can't the FAA handle an email
attachement of a Word doc or a PDF file?

Sheesh....

Kirk

A little more seriously, looking at 8130.2F (change 4), Section 10,
para e, it states:

Effectivity. Aircraft that received original airworthiness
certification before July 9, 1993, are NOT affected by this order
unless the original airworthiness certification purpose changes, for
example, from R&D to exhibition. Those aircraft, except for purpose
changes, will not be affected until the FAA works with the public to
determine the best strategy to certificate all experimental exhibition
and/or air racing aircraft in accordance with the new policy. The
policy established in this order will not be used in these cases
unless specifically requested by the applicant.

So it looks like older gliders should be safe. For now. Maybe....

See: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...F%20Ch%204.pdf,
page 166.

Kirk
"Fingers crossed"
66

On Feb 4, 2:46*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
A little more seriously, looking at 8130.2F (change 4), Section 10,
para e, it states:

Effectivity. Aircraft that received original airworthiness
certification before July 9, 1993, are NOT affected by this order
unless the original airworthiness certification purpose changes, for
example, from R&D to exhibition. Those aircraft, except for purpose
changes, will not be affected until the FAA works with the public to
determine the best strategy to certificate all experimental exhibition
and/or air racing aircraft in accordance with the new policy. The
policy established in this order will not be used in these cases
unless specifically requested by the applicant.

So it looks like older gliders should be safe. *For now. *Maybe....

See: *http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...F%20Ch%204.pdf,
page 166.

Kirk
"Fingers crossed"
66

Well, if the FAA really does intend to "work with the public" on a new
policy, perhaps that's the SSA's opportunity to work out a sensible
policy for all experimental sailplanes. Preferably a one time letter
that places no geographic restrictions. Would that common sense
prevail for once....

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Speaking of Faxing - what's with that? Can't the FAA handle an email
attachement of a Word doc or a PDF file?

Sheesh....

Kirk

A inquiry to your friendly FSDO might be in order. Electronic is
easier for both parties.

The Houston (TX) FDSO accepted my program letter (and other's)
electronically this year. Understandably, they want a signature, so a
plain Word file is generally not going to cut it. I printed the
letter, signed it, scanned it to a pdf, and submitted.

Based on a recommendation I saw some months ago (in Soaring mag or
ras, I don't recall) to ask for receipt confirmation, I asked for a
return email stating they received it, which they did. I realize
that's not legally definative, but it's an easy step to at least
confirm they read it and felt it was acceptable.

While the whole program letter idea for sailplanes does seem a bit
pointless, I did feel that our local FDSO was trying to make the best
of the existing requirements and very willing to work with pilots.

- Frank