Different standards ?

So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.

Club CFI approx 50 years old and has a non-aviation related day job
FBO CFI approx 35 years old ( day job is CFI and fly's charter for the FBO

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.


Basil

FMO writes:

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

Personality, not age. Plus a different set of ulterior motives.

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.

That is certainly a possibility. It is, after all, a club, not a
profit-oriented business, so personality clashes are important, whereas simply
paying for a service is not.

On Mar 29, 3:09*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
FMO writes:
SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

Personality, not age. Plus a different set of ulterior motives.

What an idiot you are Jeffrey. This has nothing to do with
personality or "ulterior motives". The older man has higher
standards, as well as the club plane to consider.

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.

That is certainly a possibility. It is, after all, a club, not a
profit-oriented business, so personality clashes are important, whereas simply
paying for a service is not.

Please. Get a loaded gun. Stick it in your mouth and pull the
trigger. You owe it to the world.

---
Uncle Al

Uncle Al writes:

This has nothing to do with
personality or "ulterior motives". The older man has higher
standards, as well as the club plane to consider.

Maybe. Or, as previously speculated, he simply wants to exclude someone from
the club. That's why it's called a club, and not a business.

On Mar 29, 1:48*am, "FMO" wrote:
So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. *Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. *Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, *the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.

Club CFI approx 50 years old and has a non-aviation related day job
FBO CFI approx 35 years old ( day job is CFI and fly's charter for the FBO

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.F

It could be the standards for the club are different (and higher) than
those required for a BFR. Think about it this way -- I am sure you've
driven (or even flown) with people who have the right credentials, but
you would never lead your car or airplane to them.

What might be rewarding for you is to have a cup of coffee with the
club's CFI, tell him you want to be a better pilot, and ask what he
saw that concerned him. You may or may not agree with what he says,
but just maybe you'll learn something you had not thought about.

On Mar 29, 6:48*pm, "FMO" wrote:
So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. *Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. *Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, *the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.


Sorry to hear that. Just a few thoughts:
A BFR is not just a test but a review and also an opportunity to
learn. On my recent BFR I learnt several new ideas for improving my
flying that I now want to use/exploit. You should have asked him what
was wrong and what you could do to improve. It may be that he has
really high standards and doesn't want to hear even a chirp or see any
sideways drift at all. Maybe you cross controlled the approach
instead of crabbing (or vice versa) and he doesn't like that method?
How long did you keep the downwind wheel off and did you increase
aileron as you slowed? Without asking him what he expects of a PPL you
have no idea what to work on. I would have expected him to give some
comments on your first T/G and give you the benefit of proving you can
do it properly. On the other hand it might be that several areas of
the BFR were deficient and he just stated the one that he thought just
brought you below muster (did you tell him what the cross wind
component was likely to be after listening to the AWIB/ATIS -what
flaps did you select and why?). But it may be that being a CFI is the
only 'respectable' part of his life and he milks it. Go back and ask
him for a lesson so that you can improve to 'club' standards... I
don't think the BFR has to be all done in one session and if only one
bit is problematic that's all you have to redo/relearn. Talk to the
other club members and see what they are like -a club is also supposed
to be social ...

Good luck

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:48:47 -0700, FMO wrote:

So... I am attempting to join a small club (20 people) that share two
Archers. They had two open slots so on Wednesday I was scheduled to take a
checkride with the clubs CFI, I thought as my BFR is due in 2 months that we
could combine both the BFR and the club checkout into one flight

So ... off we go flying, slow flight, stalls, steep turns sim emergency
landings etc, all was good. Then it was time for some landings, we had a
good 30degree 12kt crosswind and we did a few t&g

After shutdown, the CFI said that he would not sign off the review because
my crosswind landings were bad. Disappointed for about 15 mins, then I
called my local FBO instructor who was working that day, I walked over to
the FBO, the instructor and I jumped into the FBO's rental archer and I
managed 4 good x-wind landings, same airport, same cross winds.

Club CFI approx 50 years old and has a non-aviation related day job
FBO CFI approx 35 years old ( day job is CFI and fly's charter for the FBO

SO... is this an age related thing - does the older CFI have a higher set of
standards as me is "protecting" HIS clubs aircraft

I am just left with the feeling that he does not want me to join and this is
a mechanism to block me.

Basil

Who knows if he is blocking you? Ask him straight out. Are you trying
to keep me out of the club? What did you do wrong, explain to him that
/you/ saw nothing wrong and talk it out. This could be aircraft
related, for instance, his club wants to see landings approached in
their Archers a certain way to allow for less potential landing gear
stress.

Maybe you smelled like a donkey.

If he wants to block you, you're doomed. If they only have two slots
out of 20, then they can afford to be picky.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

"?Ari ?" wrote

Who knows if he is blocking you? Ask him straight out. Are you trying
to keep me out of the club? What did you do wrong, explain to him that
/you/ saw nothing wrong and talk it out.

Approach him thaat way, and I guarantee you are blocked from that time
forward, if you weren't before.

You better be sweet, not a bitch, not one who thinks his landings are
perfect and have no room for improvement.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans writes:

Approach him thaat way, and I guarantee you are blocked from that time
forward, if you weren't before.

That depends on his personality.

On 29 Mar, 21:23, Mxsmanic wrote:
Morgans writes:
Approach him thaat way, and I guarantee you are blocked from that time
forward, if you weren't before.

That depends on his personality.

**** off Jeffrey Blossom.