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F-14 vs. F-15 accel.



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 14th 04, 05:43 AM
Guy Alcala
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Default F-14 vs. F-15 accel.

Any of you Turkey drivers (let's say A or B) ever have a
drag race with an F-15, or compare Dash-1/NATOPS and see
which one had better 1g Ps? I was just wondering which
could out-accelerate the other assuming similar
configuration Let's say air superiority with 8 missiles, or
else both clean). Assuming a subsonic start I'd expect the
F-15A to take the lead initially, but then once it hits
transonic and the Tom's wings start to go back, I'd think
the latter might pull even or ahead. Any opinions based on
practical experience out there?

Guy

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  #2  
Old December 14th 04, 03:25 PM
Pechs1
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Any of you Turkey drivers (let's say A or B) ever have a
drag race with an F-15, or compare Dash-1/NATOPS and see
which one had better 1g Ps? I was just wondering which
could out-accelerate the other assuming similar BRBR

I would say the F-15 would beat an 'A' but would lose to a 'B', 'D' model.

The wings on the F-14 start back way before transonic, besides, If I was racing
I'd manual aft/airsource off as sonn as I went to AB.

I have chased down an F-15 in a A-4F+ tho, made him turn and then spanked him
pretty bad. Low-ish, slow, The F-15 isn't great in that arena.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
  #3  
Old December 14th 04, 10:47 PM
John Carrier
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According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of
course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race.
F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to fight
in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS.

R / John


"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Any of you Turkey drivers (let's say A or B) ever have a
drag race with an F-15, or compare Dash-1/NATOPS and see
which one had better 1g Ps? I was just wondering which
could out-accelerate the other assuming similar
configuration Let's say air superiority with 8 missiles, or
else both clean). Assuming a subsonic start I'd expect the
F-15A to take the lead initially, but then once it hits
transonic and the Tom's wings start to go back, I'd think
the latter might pull even or ahead. Any opinions based on
practical experience out there?

Guy



  #4  
Old December 15th 04, 01:58 AM
Guy Alcala
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Default

John Carrier wrote:

According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of
course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race.
F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to fight
in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS.


My thanks to you and Pechs. My question was based around the Iraqi bugout to
Iran in DS, when F-15s were sometimes unable to close into AIM-7 range in a
tail chase of Iraqis at high Q on the deck (I've seen claims of 700 kts for
some, probably MiG-23s or Fitters, with F-15s firing AIM-7s at 650KCAS @
12,000 feet). Any opinions on whether the F-14 or F-15 had better endurance
at say M1.2-1.4 @ ca. 12kft, once they accelerated to that speed? I figure
the AIM-54 would give them a fair range advantage tail-on, but whether it was
enough to overcome the slower accel due to the drag of carrying a couple, I
don't know.

Guy



  #5  
Old December 15th 04, 10:42 PM
John Carrier
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"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
John Carrier wrote:

According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of
course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race.
F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to
fight
in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS.


My thanks to you and Pechs. My question was based around the Iraqi bugout
to
Iran in DS, when F-15s were sometimes unable to close into AIM-7 range in
a
tail chase of Iraqis at high Q on the deck (I've seen claims of 700 kts
for
some, probably MiG-23s or Fitters, with F-15s firing AIM-7s at 650KCAS @
12,000 feet). Any opinions on whether the F-14 or F-15 had better
endurance
at say M1.2-1.4 @ ca. 12kft, once they accelerated to that speed? I
figure
the AIM-54 would give them a fair range advantage tail-on, but whether it
was
enough to overcome the slower accel due to the drag of carrying a couple,
I
don't know.


650??? I've had F-8's, F-4's and F-14's all faster. The Turkey is a
legitimate 800 knot airplane down low. As to 1.2-1.4 supersonic endurance,
the Turkey hands down. OTOH, Buffaloes are never a good weapon for fighter
vs fighter, even in a tail chase.

R / John


  #6  
Old December 16th 04, 12:58 AM
Tony Volk
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I'm curious as to why they wouldn't be good in a tail chase given that there
wouldn't be any noticeable change in the RWR until the very end? Certainly,
they ought to have more energy/range than most other AAM. And for the
record, other than their weight/drag, why are they called Buffaloes? I've
heard that someone thought they looked like a Buffalo coming off the rail,
but either that person has never seen a buffalo, or the vision requirements
were SERIOUSLY relaxed for that individual.

While I've got a John (I can never remember which John flew the -14), how
did it perform a-a against the Eagle in BFM? I've heard some sources say
the Eagle is nigh-invincible in the high speed dogfight (even compared to
the Viper), while other sources (Tomcat drivers) tell me that a -14A is a
good match, while a -14B/D is just cruel to the Eagle driver. Any comments?
I know that this is an awful newbie question, and I know that air under the
ass counts for most, but I'm curious to get a general opinion about how
close they are (actually, how close are all the teen series?). Cheers,

Tony

650??? I've had F-8's, F-4's and F-14's all faster. The Turkey is a
legitimate 800 knot airplane down low. As to 1.2-1.4 supersonic

endurance,
the Turkey hands down. OTOH, Buffaloes are never a good weapon for

fighter
vs fighter, even in a tail chase.

R / John




  #7  
Old December 16th 04, 01:09 AM
Frijoles
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IIRC, the Eagles were flying with 3 tanks (retained) and (obviously) a
combat load.

"John Carrier" wrote in message
...

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
John Carrier wrote:

According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of
course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race.
F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to
fight
in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS.


My thanks to you and Pechs. My question was based around the Iraqi
bugout to
Iran in DS, when F-15s were sometimes unable to close into AIM-7 range in
a
tail chase of Iraqis at high Q on the deck (I've seen claims of 700 kts
for
some, probably MiG-23s or Fitters, with F-15s firing AIM-7s at 650KCAS @
12,000 feet). Any opinions on whether the F-14 or F-15 had better
endurance
at say M1.2-1.4 @ ca. 12kft, once they accelerated to that speed? I
figure
the AIM-54 would give them a fair range advantage tail-on, but whether it
was
enough to overcome the slower accel due to the drag of carrying a couple,
I
don't know.


650??? I've had F-8's, F-4's and F-14's all faster. The Turkey is a
legitimate 800 knot airplane down low. As to 1.2-1.4 supersonic
endurance, the Turkey hands down. OTOH, Buffaloes are never a good weapon
for fighter vs fighter, even in a tail chase.

R / John



  #8  
Old December 16th 04, 11:17 AM
Guy Alcala
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Frijoles wrote:

IIRC, the Eagles were flying with 3 tanks (retained) and (obviously) a
combat load.


The tanks were punched, and 650 KCAS or so was apparently enough to get them in
the envelope. Although ISTR being told that the F-15 has never gotten within a
mile of its 800KCAS limit in level flight. 730KCAS or so on the deck is
floating around in my memory, but don't put a lot of weight on that in this
case.

Guy

  #9  
Old December 16th 04, 12:00 PM
[email protected]***gmail.com
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Default

Guy,

What engine trim was set for the F15? I recall typically they are
usually at 96%.

~j

  #10  
Old December 16th 04, 03:02 PM
Pechs1
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Default

Tony- how
did it perform a-a against the Eagle in BFM? I've heard some sources say
the Eagle is nigh-invincible in the high speed dogfight (even compared to
the Viper), while other sources (Tomcat drivers) tell me that a -14A is a
good match, while a -14B/D is just cruel to the Eagle driver. Any comments?
BRBR



I say-Since the F-15 had a hard wing, no manuvering devices, high altitude and
high speed, it was very good but if you got it lower and slower, in the 10,000
feet arena and 200 or so kts, you could beat it up pretty good.

The big problem with the F-14 was aft wing sweep at high altitudes, even at
slowish speeds..which made it very piggy.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
 




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