slightly high aluminum in an IO-360

I've had slightly high aluminum for the last year. I'm not happy about
it but everyone says its not high enough to spend real money pulling
cylinders or boroscoping. I'm curious what the group thinks...

IO-360-A3B6
SFNEW 682
At each 50 hours change I've had...
7, 10, 25, 13 (short sample), 24, 23 ppm

I don't think I have an alumimum dip stick (at least my A&P says I
don't). I'm not finding anything in the filter.

I'm in California so everything is pretty pricey. Should I spend a
grand or so having the cylinders boroscoped?

-Robert

The cylinder bores are steel. You might pull all of your plugs (top and
bottom) and rotate the prop by hand so you can get a good look at the
pistons and part of the cylinder walls. Shining a flashlight through one
plug hole and looking through the other hole works pretty well.

The obvious place for aluminum is the pistons or the piston wrist pin caps,
and you cant see the caps without pulling the jug.

KB


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
I've had slightly high aluminum for the last year. I'm not happy about
it but everyone says its not high enough to spend real money pulling
cylinders or boroscoping. I'm curious what the group thinks...

IO-360-A3B6
SFNEW 682
At each 50 hours change I've had...
7, 10, 25, 13 (short sample), 24, 23 ppm

I don't think I have an alumimum dip stick (at least my A&P says I
don't). I'm not finding anything in the filter.

I'm in California so everything is pretty pricey. Should I spend a
grand or so having the cylinders boroscoped?

-Robert

A grand or so? Borescoping is now considered a standard part of the
compression check for Continental engines, and I do it regularly on
every annual. Borescoping involves little more than pulling a spark plug
out of each cylinder, and shouldn't cost any $1000 or so! Unless you
have a piston disintegrating, borescoping won't tell you much in your
case, either.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I've had slightly high aluminum for the last year. I'm not happy about
it but everyone says its not high enough to spend real money pulling
cylinders or boroscoping. I'm curious what the group thinks...

IO-360-A3B6
SFNEW 682
At each 50 hours change I've had...
7, 10, 25, 13 (short sample), 24, 23 ppm

I don't think I have an alumimum dip stick (at least my A&P says I
don't). I'm not finding anything in the filter.

I'm in California so everything is pretty pricey. Should I spend a
grand or so having the cylinders boroscoped?

-Robert

I've had slightly high potassium, but instead of borescoping, my AME put
me on a diuretic.

Rich


Robert M. Gary wrote:
I've had slightly high aluminum for the last year. I'm not happy about
it but everyone says its not high enough to spend real money pulling
cylinders or boroscoping. I'm curious what the group thinks...

You should stop peeing in your engine.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Rich" wrote in message
...
I've had slightly high potassium, but instead of borescoping, my AME put
me on a diuretic.

Rich


Robert M. Gary wrote:
I've had slightly high aluminum for the last year. I'm not happy about
it but everyone says its not high enough to spend real money pulling
cylinders or boroscoping. I'm curious what the group thinks...

In article ,
(Robert M. Gary) writes:

IO-360-A3B6
SFNEW 682
At each 50 hours change I've had...
7, 10, 25, 13 (short sample), 24, 23 ppm

I don't think I have an alumimum dip stick (at least my A&P says I
don't). I'm not finding anything in the filter.

I'm in California so everything is pretty pricey. Should I spend a
grand or so having the cylinders boroscoped?


Robert,
The IO360 in my Archer has about the same hours and the last three readings
have been 14, 10, 12 for the Al. Cleve Tech Center ( and my A&P) say that is
OK. Yours is a little higher but if the "experts" say OK the watchfull waiting
seems to be in order. The Troubleshooting Guide from Cleve Tech suggests less
than 10 and the sources can be from "Bushings, Some Bearings, Pistons, Turbo
Charger, Compressor Wheels". Seems to me (no expert) that the borscope would
not answer your question anyway.

LOL and keep watching.

Chuck

(PaulaJay1) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Robert M. Gary) writes:

IO-360-A3B6
SFNEW 682
At each 50 hours change I've had...
7, 10, 25, 13 (short sample), 24, 23 ppm

I don't think I have an alumimum dip stick (at least my A&P says I
don't). I'm not finding anything in the filter.

I'm in California so everything is pretty pricey. Should I spend a
grand or so having the cylinders boroscoped?


Robert,
The IO360 in my Archer has about the same hours and the last three readings
have been 14, 10, 12 for the Al. Cleve Tech Center ( and my A&P) say that is
OK. Yours is a little higher but if the "experts" say OK the watchfull waiting
seems to be in order. The Troubleshooting Guide from Cleve Tech suggests less
than 10 and the sources can be from "Bushings, Some Bearings, Pistons, Turbo
Charger, Compressor Wheels". Seems to me (no expert) that the borscope would
not answer your question anyway.

LOL and keep watching.

Chuck

There have been several ADs against the aluminum piston pin plugs in
Lycomings. Many mechanics are in the habit of ignoring ADs, and the
disintegrating plugs go on falling apart until the pin hits the
cylinder and grooves it. It might be wise to do an AD search to see
where your airplane might be behind.

Dan

(PaulaJay1) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Robert M. Gary) writes:

IO-360-A3B6
SFNEW 682
At each 50 hours change I've had...
7, 10, 25, 13 (short sample), 24, 23 ppm

I don't think I have an alumimum dip stick (at least my A&P says I
don't). I'm not finding anything in the filter.

I'm in California so everything is pretty pricey. Should I spend a
grand or so having the cylinders boroscoped?


Robert,
The IO360 in my Archer has about the same hours and the last three readings
have been 14, 10, 12 for the Al. Cleve Tech Center ( and my A&P) say that is
OK. Yours is a little higher but if the "experts" say OK the watchfull waiting
seems to be in order. The Troubleshooting Guide from Cleve Tech suggests less
than 10 and the sources can be from "Bushings, Some Bearings, Pistons, Turbo
Charger, Compressor Wheels". Seems to me (no expert) that the borscope would
not answer your question anyway.

I just called Lycoming. To my surprise, they were very helpful to me
considering I bought the engine from them 8 years ago. They said to
check the oil screen. I didn't even know the IO-360 had a screen. They
said that if I found any metal in the filter or the screen that I
could send it to them. They said they could tell EXACTELY what part of
the engine was making it. Apparently different parts of the engine's
aluminum have different alloys. So the piston pins have a different
aluminum than the dip stick, etc. He also said there was no charge for
this.
I've checked the filter beofre and not found anything. However, I've
never checked the screen. I'm not sure if my IA is doing that during
annual or not.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I've checked the filter beofre and not found anything. However, I've
never checked the screen. I'm not sure if my IA is doing that during
annual or not.

The screen should be checked every 50 tach hours. If the shop is changing the oil as
part of the annual, they almost certainly are checking the screen. If they aren't I
would wonder what else they're skipping.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I've checked the filter beofre and not found anything. However, I've
never checked the screen. I'm not sure if my IA is doing that during
annual or not.

The screen should be checked every 50 tach hours. If the shop is changing the oil as
part of the annual, they almost certainly are checking the screen. If they aren't I
would wonder what else they're skipping.

I'm sure the shop is doing it but I do most of the oil changes myself
(except the one at annual). I'm not checking the screen. I'll have to
schedule some time with the A&P to have him show me how to do it. The
Lycoming guy said they've seen cases where a filter has come out clean
because there were so many chunks of big metal plugging up the screen.

-Robert