O-320 Engine Costs - 172

As I've been discussing in another thread, I'm evaluating a 1982 C172P
for purchase. I was using $20k as the TOTAL cost of an engine
replacement, but apparently that is high.

I'd like to hear from owners that have experience with this. If I
take it in at 2000 hrs, what am I going to pay (read: how much will
the check be) to get to 0 SMOH? I presume there are variables, like
having an annual done at the same time, helping with the swap, etc.
For budgeting and negotiating purposes, though, what should I figure
on to get it back to 0 time?

Thanks all!

"Jerry Napoliano" wrote in message
...
As I've been discussing in another thread, I'm evaluating a 1982 C172P
for purchase. I was using $20k as the TOTAL cost of an engine
replacement, but apparently that is high.

I'd like to hear from owners that have experience with this. If I
take it in at 2000 hrs, what am I going to pay (read: how much will
the check be) to get to 0 SMOH? I presume there are variables, like
having an annual done at the same time, helping with the swap, etc.
For budgeting and negotiating purposes, though, what should I figure
on to get it back to 0 time?

I getting ready (in about 20 hours) to upgrade an IO-520 to an Millennium
IO-550 and the cost is going to be ~$28K, so a O-320 will probably be about
half that. of course, WHO does the replacement and WHAT they replace it with
will tweak the cost, probably substantially.

Jerry Napoliano wrote:
: As I've been discussing in another thread, I'm evaluating a 1982 C172P
: for purchase. I was using $20k as the TOTAL cost of an engine
: replacement, but apparently that is high.

: I'd like to hear from owners that have experience with this. If I
: take it in at 2000 hrs, what am I going to pay (read: how much will
: the check be) to get to 0 SMOH? I presume there are variables, like
: having an annual done at the same time, helping with the swap, etc.
: For budgeting and negotiating purposes, though, what should I figure
: on to get it back to 0 time?

: Thanks all!

The overhaul cost depends primarily on what you want to spend. If there isn't
anything major wrong (like needing to replace the crank) and you did all the work
yourself it could be "cheap." If you reused the jugs, replaced the minimum hardware
(rod bolts, gaskets, etc), and magnefluxed the steel parts, you could theoretically
get by with $2000. Not recommended and certainly not much of an overhaul, but often
done by people trying to sell a "0 SMOH" airplane. Consider these ballpark numbers:

Not really optional (opinions vary, though)
$1300 each for 4 jugs, maybe half that for used (not recommended)
$1500 steel inspection
$1500 hardware (bolts, gaskets, etc)
$4000 labor

Slightly more optional
$0-$5k Accessory overhauls (mags, alternator, starter, vac pump, etc)
$0-$2.5k Prop overhaul/replacement

Potential big ticket expenses
$2.5k crank
$1.5k cam
$2k? case halves if worn.


So, saying $20k for an "overhaul" is probably a bit high on the average, but
not necessarily. If you take it to a white-shirt aircraft shop and say, "Please
overhaul my engine with a zero-time factory overhaul," it'll run you more than $20k.
If you befriend a salty old mechanic, do the work yourself, and only replace the bare
essentials, $5k could be possible, or $10k with new jugs.

As with everything else... "it's complicated"...

-Cory

--
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* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
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In article , Jerry
Napoliano wrote:

As I've been discussing in another thread, I'm evaluating a 1982 C172P
for purchase. I was using $20k as the TOTAL cost of an engine
replacement, but apparently that is high.

I'd like to hear from owners that have experience with this. If I
take it in at 2000 hrs, what am I going to pay (read: how much will
the check be) to get to 0 SMOH? I presume there are variables, like
having an annual done at the same time, helping with the swap, etc.
For budgeting and negotiating purposes, though, what should I figure
on to get it back to 0 time?

It depends. A friend exchanged the O-360 in his cherokee, and
the total was a bit more than $14,000. That was a Mattituck
overhaul to new specs (overhauled cylinders) in exchange for
his O-360. He didn't need new mags or other accessories.

otoh - for my overhaul (an O-320), I opted for new cylinders and
the STC to convert it to 160hp ($14,440 at Penn Yan). I also needed
or chose to have the engine mount overhaul, oil cooler overhaul,
prop overhaul (including repitch), new oil and fuel lines, and
muffler. So mine was closer to $20,000 (and I did a bunch of
the R&R).

--
Bob Noel

$20k is not high at all. Figure around $14k for an overhaul to new
limits with new cylinders. I don't recommend overhauled cylinders. It is
simply not worth it in my mind. If only one goes bad, the economics are
out the window. I believe the exhaust ports on 0-320s crack on
overhauled cylinders more often than rebuild shops like to admit.

Add:
alternator overhaul
muffler overhaul
replace one or more exhaust stacks
replace gascolator screen
carb heat shield overhaul
new engine mounts
new fuel hoses
new oil hoses
strip and repaint mount
sandblast and repair all cooling shrouds
new engine baffles
new vacuum pump
new alternator belt
new scat tubing

Overhauling the engine without this stuff is false economy in my opinion.

Helping with the swap is a minimal savings. You might save a couple of
hundred if you strip/repaint the mount and do the baffling. It might be
easier to hand them the keys and then have "one throat to choke".

Things you don't know about but will find out along the way a whether
the prop is out of tolerance and/or you have any cracks in the spinner
or the backplates. Also, you may have a cracked alternator bracket (the
one going to the starter is notorious in Pipers, not sure about the
Cessna setup).

The problem with this proposition is that it is almost ALWAYS less
expensive to get a ready-to-go bird with fewer surprises than to bite on
one of these runouts. Some say "yeah, but you know what kind of overhaul
you are getting". True, but you also know you bought a bird from someone
who did not have the money to overhaul the thing him/her self. I can
almost guarantee there is a laundry list of other defects that YOU will
have to fix at annual that the current owner let go.

Good Luck,
Mike

Jerry Napoliano wrote:
As I've been discussing in another thread, I'm evaluating a 1982 C172P
for purchase. I was using $20k as the TOTAL cost of an engine
replacement, but apparently that is high.

I'd like to hear from owners that have experience with this. If I
take it in at 2000 hrs, what am I going to pay (read: how much will
the check be) to get to 0 SMOH? I presume there are variables, like
having an annual done at the same time, helping with the swap, etc.
For budgeting and negotiating purposes, though, what should I figure
on to get it back to 0 time?

Thanks all!



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Jerry Napoliano wrote in message . ..
As I've been discussing in another thread, I'm evaluating a 1982 C172P
for purchase. I was using $20k as the TOTAL cost of an engine
replacement, but apparently that is high.

You might consider calling an overhaul shop of your choice and asking
1) How much a complete overhaul for your engine costs, and 2) what
that complete overhaul covers.

-Malcolm Teas

On 22-Jun-2004, Jerry Napoliano wrote:

I'd like to hear from owners that have experience with this.


For what it's worth, we are about to replace the IO-360 engine in our Arrow
with a Lycoming factory rebuilt (i.e. true "zero time") engine. Cost of the
engine is $21,800 exchange. Our mechanic says that the cost of swapping the
engine will be about $2,000, including new hoses and other items typically
replaced at overhaul, plus overhaul of the engine mount. We just replaced
the vacuum pump and the exhaust system is in good shape, so we are saving a
bit there. Bottom line, total cost will be around $24,000. A field
overhaul (with new jugs) would have been a few thousand less, but a premium
overhaul from a top-flight shop like Mattituck would have cost nearly the
same. If we had to replace the exhaust and vacuum pump it would probably be
a couple thousand more.

The price for a Lyc factory rebuilt 0-320-D2J (from VanBortel) is listed as
$16,923 exchange. (http://www.factoryengines.com/)

The cost of removing and replacing the engine on a C-172 can't be much more
than on an Arrow, and accessories probably cost about the same. Therefore,
I suspect you could get the complete job done for around $19,000, assuming
your engine has salvageable crankshaft and crankcase. This is for a zero
time engine, rebuilt to new engine tolerances, with factory warranty.

--
-Elliott Drucker