Best bet in a used IFR GPS?

Hi all,

Currently examining options for upgrading a 1979 172N with an IFR-certified
GPS. We currently have two good nav/coms, M-1 Loran, and ADF that we want to
replace.

Goal is to find the most cost-efficient IFR GPS install to replace the ADF
and add legal /G and DME capabilities. Keeping in mind that the plane is
worth maybe 50k we are not going to spend 10-12k on a GNS-430 class box, so
as I see it we have these options:

- Northstar M-3 Approach
- Garmin 155 or 155XL
- King KLN-89B or KLN-90B
- Apollo GX-50

AFAICT one can pick up a decent used example of any of these for between
$1500 and $3000 depending. I know we'll also need the annunciator and CDI,
and that installation/certification will comprise 50% of the total cost.

One of my big concerns in buying an older GPS is database updates. I want to
make sure we will not end up say a year or two down the road with an
expensive VFR GPS because updates are no longer available. Also, general
mfr. support.

I would like a decent moving-map capability, but given that we have none in
the plane right now, even a simple airspace depiction like the KLN-89B would
be a significant gain. If we want something snazzy we can get it better on a
handheld anyway. I would spend an extra $500 for a better map, but $1000 or
$1500 I'd wonder about.

What would you guys do?

Best,
-cwk.

Check your email. I just bought a KLN94 to replace our 89B. email me if
you are interested.
Jim Burns

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi all,

Currently examining options for upgrading a 1979 172N with an
IFR-certified
GPS. We currently have two good nav/coms, M-1 Loran, and ADF that we want
to
replace.

Goal is to find the most cost-efficient IFR GPS install to replace the ADF
and add legal /G and DME capabilities. Keeping in mind that the plane is
worth maybe 50k we are not going to spend 10-12k on a GNS-430 class box,
so
as I see it we have these options:

- Northstar M-3 Approach
- Garmin 155 or 155XL
- King KLN-89B or KLN-90B
- Apollo GX-50

AFAICT one can pick up a decent used example of any of these for between
$1500 and $3000 depending. I know we'll also need the annunciator and CDI,
and that installation/certification will comprise 50% of the total cost.

One of my big concerns in buying an older GPS is database updates. I want
to
make sure we will not end up say a year or two down the road with an
expensive VFR GPS because updates are no longer available. Also, general
mfr. support.

I would like a decent moving-map capability, but given that we have none
in
the plane right now, even a simple airspace depiction like the KLN-89B
would
be a significant gain. If we want something snazzy we can get it better on
a
handheld anyway. I would spend an extra $500 for a better map, but $1000
or
$1500 I'd wonder about.

What would you guys do?

Best,
-cwk.




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Here is a different way to look at the problem.

How bad of an investment do you want to make?

1. Installation is lost the second you put the machine in the plane.
2. The value of the box is already depreciated.

Considering 1 and 2, the more you spend on the box, the better the
investment. For example, if installation is 50% of the cost, then you lost
50%. If installation is 25% of the cost, you lost 25%.

You have a basic 172N that likely has another decade worth of service left
in it before it starts to go south on value. Why not buy something that will
last that long?

Unless you can get a sweet deal on the install, or on a particular unit, I
would be slow to dismiss a nicer machine like a used 430. Even if you spend
3k more, you will likely get it back. And, if you decide to sell your plane,
you can count on moving it much more quickly with that box in the panel.


"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi all,

Currently examining options for upgrading a 1979 172N with an
IFR-certified
GPS. We currently have two good nav/coms, M-1 Loran, and ADF that we want
to
replace.

Goal is to find the most cost-efficient IFR GPS install to replace the ADF
and add legal /G and DME capabilities. Keeping in mind that the plane is
worth maybe 50k we are not going to spend 10-12k on a GNS-430 class box,
so
as I see it we have these options:

- Northstar M-3 Approach
- Garmin 155 or 155XL
- King KLN-89B or KLN-90B
- Apollo GX-50

AFAICT one can pick up a decent used example of any of these for between
$1500 and $3000 depending. I know we'll also need the annunciator and CDI,
and that installation/certification will comprise 50% of the total cost.

One of my big concerns in buying an older GPS is database updates. I want
to
make sure we will not end up say a year or two down the road with an
expensive VFR GPS because updates are no longer available. Also, general
mfr. support.

I would like a decent moving-map capability, but given that we have none
in
the plane right now, even a simple airspace depiction like the KLN-89B
would
be a significant gain. If we want something snazzy we can get it better on
a
handheld anyway. I would spend an extra $500 for a better map, but $1000
or
$1500 I'd wonder about.

What would you guys do?

Best,
-cwk.

There's a brand new, uninstalled Garmin 155XL for sale on the bulletin board
of our FBO. It's been there since April, so he might take less than the
$2,500 he was hoping for. Let me know if you want a contact number.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi all,

Currently examining options for upgrading a 1979 172N with an
IFR-certified
GPS. We currently have two good nav/coms, M-1 Loran, and ADF that we want
to
replace.

Goal is to find the most cost-efficient IFR GPS install to replace the ADF
and add legal /G and DME capabilities. Keeping in mind that the plane is
worth maybe 50k we are not going to spend 10-12k on a GNS-430 class box,
so
as I see it we have these options:

- Northstar M-3 Approach
- Garmin 155 or 155XL
- King KLN-89B or KLN-90B
- Apollo GX-50

AFAICT one can pick up a decent used example of any of these for between
$1500 and $3000 depending. I know we'll also need the annunciator and CDI,
and that installation/certification will comprise 50% of the total cost.

One of my big concerns in buying an older GPS is database updates. I want
to
make sure we will not end up say a year or two down the road with an
expensive VFR GPS because updates are no longer available. Also, general
mfr. support.

I would like a decent moving-map capability, but given that we have none
in
the plane right now, even a simple airspace depiction like the KLN-89B
would
be a significant gain. If we want something snazzy we can get it better on
a
handheld anyway. I would spend an extra $500 for a better map, but $1000
or
$1500 I'd wonder about.

What would you guys do?

Best,
-cwk.

Garmin 300XL might be another one to put on the list, and you would
gain a COM radio too. Ebay has them for $2500.00


On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:25:10 GMT, "C Kingsbury"
wrote:

Hi all,

Currently examining options for upgrading a 1979 172N with an IFR-certified
GPS. We currently have two good nav/coms, M-1 Loran, and ADF that we want to
replace.

Goal is to find the most cost-efficient IFR GPS install to replace the ADF
and add legal /G and DME capabilities. Keeping in mind that the plane is
worth maybe 50k we are not going to spend 10-12k on a GNS-430 class box, so
as I see it we have these options:

- Northstar M-3 Approach
- Garmin 155 or 155XL
- King KLN-89B or KLN-90B
- Apollo GX-50

AFAICT one can pick up a decent used example of any of these for between
$1500 and $3000 depending. I know we'll also need the annunciator and CDI,
and that installation/certification will comprise 50% of the total cost.

One of my big concerns in buying an older GPS is database updates. I want to
make sure we will not end up say a year or two down the road with an
expensive VFR GPS because updates are no longer available. Also, general
mfr. support.

I would like a decent moving-map capability, but given that we have none in
the plane right now, even a simple airspace depiction like the KLN-89B would
be a significant gain. If we want something snazzy we can get it better on a
handheld anyway. I would spend an extra $500 for a better map, but $1000 or
$1500 I'd wonder about.

What would you guys do?

Best,
-cwk.

Yes. And the 300XL is same size as 155XL and saves additional panel
space/weight of that old comm you can remove.

Nathan Young wrote in message . ..
Garmin 300XL might be another one to put on the list, and you would
gain a COM radio too. Ebay has them for $2500.00
..............

C Kingsbury wrote:
: Currently examining options for upgrading a 1979 172N with an IFR-certified
: GPS. We currently have two good nav/coms, M-1 Loran, and ADF that we want to
: replace.

: Goal is to find the most cost-efficient IFR GPS install to replace the ADF
: and add legal /G and DME capabilities. Keeping in mind that the plane is
: worth maybe 50k we are not going to spend 10-12k on a GNS-430 class box, so
: as I see it we have these options:

: - Northstar M-3 Approach
: - Garmin 155 or 155XL
: - King KLN-89B or KLN-90B
: - Apollo GX-50

The Northstar, Garmin, and Apollo units have database updates through
Jeppesen. Jeppesen has promised support for my M3 Approach for the forseeable
future (although they are reducing the number of "niceties" in the database
as the number of intersections swells uncontrollably). The King units
have database updates through King which is a pain.

On any of those units except the M3, you're going to have to buy a switch
and annunciator (and perhaps a CDI). This will run you $1200 on top of the
GPS. The install will be quite lengthy, as there are many wires that need
to be run between the GPS, switch, annunciator, and CDI.

A 430 does not need external switches or annunciators, and has a much
simpler wiring interface, so the install time may make up for its higher
cost.

I'd contact the shop that you'd like to do the install, and ask them for
their take on the matter. They may even have a used GPS!

FWIW, I put a Northstar M3 in my Cherokee 18 months ago. The GPS, CDI, and
wiring harness cost $1200, and installation/certification was $400.
--
Aaron Coolidge

"Aaron Coolidge" wrote in message
...
C Kingsbury wrote:

On any of those units except the M3, you're going to have to buy a switch
and annunciator (and perhaps a CDI). This will run you $1200 on top of the
GPS. The install will be quite lengthy, as there are many wires that need
to be run between the GPS, switch, annunciator, and CDI.

Why does the M3 not require an annunciator, just out of curiosity?

-cwk.

C Kingsbury wrote:
: On any of those units except the M3, you're going to have to buy a switch
: and annunciator (and perhaps a CDI). This will run you $1200 on top of the
: GPS. The install will be quite lengthy, as there are many wires that need
: to be run between the GPS, switch, annunciator, and CDI.

: Why does the M3 not require an annunciator, just out of curiosity?

The M3 does require an annunciator, which (in my case) is built into the
Mid-Continent CDI. It doesn't require external switches or a resolver in the
CDI (which the 155Xl, 300Xl, 89B, GX50, etc require). Apologies if I
mislead you.
Are you in New England?
--
Aaron Coolidge

Yes, based at BED, tower ramp.

"Aaron Coolidge" wrote in message
...
C Kingsbury wrote:
: On any of those units except the M3, you're going to have to buy a
switch
: and annunciator (and perhaps a CDI). This will run you $1200 on top of
the
: GPS. The install will be quite lengthy, as there are many wires that
need
: to be run between the GPS, switch, annunciator, and CDI.

: Why does the M3 not require an annunciator, just out of curiosity?

The M3 does require an annunciator, which (in my case) is built into the
Mid-Continent CDI. It doesn't require external switches or a resolver in
the
CDI (which the 155Xl, 300Xl, 89B, GX50, etc require). Apologies if I
mislead you.
Are you in New England?
--
Aaron Coolidge