AutoGas question.. Jay Honeck, Jim Weir.. others..

The folks here who are running autogas.. I have a question for you.

Preface: When I was tasked by my volunteer fire department 10 years ago
to stamp out fuel credit card abuse and fraud, I secured the services of
a certain brand's fleet card system. The sales vendor who set up our
account told me that any of our OFF ROAD engines were eligible to be
billed free of the state and federal highway fuel taxes. In the fire
dept's case this was for generators and free standing pumps.. but our
"off road" gasoline useage was so light that it wasnt even worth the hassle.

So.. Since aircraft (with the exception of Mr Moller's wannabe Skycar
and a few others) are not considered licensed motor vehicles for the
purpose of the fuel taxes, do you guys make an effort to obtain fuel
with a special account that gives credit for these taxes? In Texas the
amount is 38.5 cents/gal and over a year or so that can add up to real
money (especially in light of the discounted price of autogas compared
to 100LL)

I'm presuming some method of accounting would be needed in the event of
an audit.. but just wanted to see if 1) anyone else was aware of this 2)
does it still exist and 3) does anyone do it?

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the
Texas rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs
by $4-$6 per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal
tank would be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

I was planning on contacting Fuelman/Rushce about their fuelcard setup
but havent gotten to it just yet (many months out from flying the
Velocity with auto conversion)...

So.. anyone have input, feedback, comment?
Dave

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the Texas
rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs by $4-$6
per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal tank would
be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

This is an intriguing idea. I've heard about doing this, but have never
pursued it.

I hope someone here can point the way for the rest of us (as far as what
paperwork is required, the procedures to follow, etc.), as this is a
significant savings!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You need to check with your state. In Alabama it doesn't apply to
airplanes. It's meant to apply to large machinery like front-end
loaders, road machinery (scrapers, etc.) and the like. But your
state will let you know it's laws.


Trip




In article et, says...

The folks here who are running autogas.. I have a question for you.

Preface: When I was tasked by my volunteer fire department 10 years ago
to stamp out fuel credit card abuse and fraud, I secured the services of
a certain brand's fleet card system. The sales vendor who set up our
account told me that any of our OFF ROAD engines were eligible to be
billed free of the state and federal highway fuel taxes. In the fire
dept's case this was for generators and free standing pumps.. but our
"off road" gasoline useage was so light that it wasnt even worth the hassle.

So.. Since aircraft (with the exception of Mr Moller's wannabe Skycar
and a few others) are not considered licensed motor vehicles for the
purpose of the fuel taxes, do you guys make an effort to obtain fuel
with a special account that gives credit for these taxes? In Texas the
amount is 38.5 cents/gal and over a year or so that can add up to real
money (especially in light of the discounted price of autogas compared
to 100LL)

I'm presuming some method of accounting would be needed in the event of
an audit.. but just wanted to see if 1) anyone else was aware of this 2)
does it still exist and 3) does anyone do it?

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the
Texas rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs
by $4-$6 per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal
tank would be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

I was planning on contacting Fuelman/Rushce about their fuelcard setup
but havent gotten to it just yet (many months out from flying the
Velocity with auto conversion)...

So.. anyone have input, feedback, comment?
Dave

Umm.. why WOULDNT it apply? You are using it for an engine that is NOT
being used to operate upon public highways? In theory you could even do
this for your gasoline lawn mower but at less than a gallon a month
useage its just not worth the hassle..

Oh well.... I WILL check into it for my state... and I am sure if I
check with a national fuel card vendor they can tell me if certain
states disallow or permit such things..

Dave

TripFarmer wrote:
You need to check with your state. In Alabama it doesn't apply to
airplanes. It's meant to apply to large machinery like front-end
loaders, road machinery (scrapers, etc.) and the like. But your
state will let you know it's laws.


Trip




In article et, says...

The folks here who are running autogas.. I have a question for you.

Preface: When I was tasked by my volunteer fire department 10 years ago
to stamp out fuel credit card abuse and fraud, I secured the services of
a certain brand's fleet card system. The sales vendor who set up our
account told me that any of our OFF ROAD engines were eligible to be
billed free of the state and federal highway fuel taxes. In the fire
dept's case this was for generators and free standing pumps.. but our
"off road" gasoline useage was so light that it wasnt even worth the hassle.

So.. Since aircraft (with the exception of Mr Moller's wannabe Skycar
and a few others) are not considered licensed motor vehicles for the
purpose of the fuel taxes, do you guys make an effort to obtain fuel
with a special account that gives credit for these taxes? In Texas the
amount is 38.5 cents/gal and over a year or so that can add up to real
money (especially in light of the discounted price of autogas compared
to 100LL)

I'm presuming some method of accounting would be needed in the event of
an audit.. but just wanted to see if 1) anyone else was aware of this 2)
does it still exist and 3) does anyone do it?

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the
Texas rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs
by $4-$6 per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal
tank would be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

I was planning on contacting Fuelman/Rushce about their fuelcard setup
but havent gotten to it just yet (many months out from flying the
Velocity with auto conversion)...

So.. anyone have input, feedback, comment?
Dave

Like I said, check with YOUR state. They are the controlling entity.



Trip
Some people will argue about anything.


In article .net, says...

Umm.. why WOULDNT it apply? You are using it for an engine that is NOT
being used to operate upon public highways? In theory you could even do
this for your gasoline lawn mower but at less than a gallon a month
useage its just not worth the hassle..

Oh well.... I WILL check into it for my state... and I am sure if I
check with a national fuel card vendor they can tell me if certain
states disallow or permit such things..

Dave

TripFarmer wrote:
You need to check with your state. In Alabama it doesn't apply to
airplanes. It's meant to apply to large machinery like front-end
loaders, road machinery (scrapers, etc.) and the like. But your
state will let you know it's laws.


Trip




In article et, DoggtyredRN
says...

The folks here who are running autogas.. I have a question for you.

Preface: When I was tasked by my volunteer fire department 10 years ago
to stamp out fuel credit card abuse and fraud, I secured the services of
a certain brand's fleet card system. The sales vendor who set up our
account told me that any of our OFF ROAD engines were eligible to be
billed free of the state and federal highway fuel taxes. In the fire
dept's case this was for generators and free standing pumps.. but our
"off road" gasoline useage was so light that it wasnt even worth the hassle.

So.. Since aircraft (with the exception of Mr Moller's wannabe Skycar
and a few others) are not considered licensed motor vehicles for the
purpose of the fuel taxes, do you guys make an effort to obtain fuel
with a special account that gives credit for these taxes? In Texas the
amount is 38.5 cents/gal and over a year or so that can add up to real
money (especially in light of the discounted price of autogas compared
to 100LL)

I'm presuming some method of accounting would be needed in the event of
an audit.. but just wanted to see if 1) anyone else was aware of this 2)
does it still exist and 3) does anyone do it?

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the
Texas rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs
by $4-$6 per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal
tank would be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

I was planning on contacting Fuelman/Rushce about their fuelcard setup
but havent gotten to it just yet (many months out from flying the
Velocity with auto conversion)...

So.. anyone have input, feedback, comment?
Dave

I haven't looked into it, although it would be worthwhile to save the tax
portion of a gallon. I have been somewhat happy to pay the $1.90 and be
grateful my plane runs so well on it.


www.Rosspilot.com

It depends on the state. There are a few pages (too lazy to google for you
now) that specify which ones and how much. I know firsthand that Virgina (where I'm
located) will refund $0.175/gal for some things (e.g. boats). For aircraft, it's
$0.125/gal (I'm assuming a nickel out for airport taxes). I fill my PA-28 from 6
gallon cans shuttled from the nearby service station. I just have to submit the
receipts along with a form within 1 year of the purchase.

I've gotten back over $225 so far between post cross-country flight fuelups
and my instrument rating training.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...
The folks here who are running autogas.. I have a question for you.

Preface: When I was tasked by my volunteer fire department 10 years ago
to stamp out fuel credit card abuse and fraud, I secured the services of
a certain brand's fleet card system. The sales vendor who set up our
account told me that any of our OFF ROAD engines were eligible to be
billed free of the state and federal highway fuel taxes. In the fire
dept's case this was for generators and free standing pumps.. but our
"off road" gasoline useage was so light that it wasnt even worth the
hassle.

So.. Since aircraft (with the exception of Mr Moller's wannabe Skycar
and a few others) are not considered licensed motor vehicles for the
purpose of the fuel taxes, do you guys make an effort to obtain fuel
with a special account that gives credit for these taxes? In Texas the
amount is 38.5 cents/gal and over a year or so that can add up to real
money (especially in light of the discounted price of autogas compared
to 100LL)

I'm presuming some method of accounting would be needed in the event of
an audit.. but just wanted to see if 1) anyone else was aware of this 2)
does it still exist and 3) does anyone do it?

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the
Texas rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs
by $4-$6 per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal
tank would be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

I was planning on contacting Fuelman/Rushce about their fuelcard setup
but havent gotten to it just yet (many months out from flying the
Velocity with auto conversion)...

So.. anyone have input, feedback, comment?
Dave


Hello Dave,

For Texas:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu....000162.00.htm

look at paragraph "162.125 (c) 4"

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinf.../06-forms.html

under "refunds"

Note, I have no experience with this, but it does sound pretty interesting!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

Thanks for the point out, John... I need to do some homework (I havent
read the links just yet).. but I may have gone off half cocked with
regards to the entire tax load being refundable/deductible.

I intend to look into this and see what I can come up with. The
fuel/fleet card vendors on a national level (Fuelman and
Chevron/Texaco.. the likely sources nearby me) were not very helpful and
in their case the deductions that I spoke of appear to be directly
related to the previous account I set up being a "fire dept" which was a
quasigovernmental agency..

Anyways.. I am going to do some research and get back to you guys.

Dave

John Clonts wrote:
"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...

The folks here who are running autogas.. I have a question for you.

Preface: When I was tasked by my volunteer fire department 10 years ago
to stamp out fuel credit card abuse and fraud, I secured the services of
a certain brand's fleet card system. The sales vendor who set up our
account told me that any of our OFF ROAD engines were eligible to be
billed free of the state and federal highway fuel taxes. In the fire
dept's case this was for generators and free standing pumps.. but our
"off road" gasoline useage was so light that it wasnt even worth the

hassle.

So.. Since aircraft (with the exception of Mr Moller's wannabe Skycar
and a few others) are not considered licensed motor vehicles for the
purpose of the fuel taxes, do you guys make an effort to obtain fuel
with a special account that gives credit for these taxes? In Texas the
amount is 38.5 cents/gal and over a year or so that can add up to real
money (especially in light of the discounted price of autogas compared
to 100LL)

I'm presuming some method of accounting would be needed in the event of
an audit.. but just wanted to see if 1) anyone else was aware of this 2)
does it still exist and 3) does anyone do it?

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the
Texas rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs
by $4-$6 per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal
tank would be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

I was planning on contacting Fuelman/Rushce about their fuelcard setup
but havent gotten to it just yet (many months out from flying the
Velocity with auto conversion)...

So.. anyone have input, feedback, comment?
Dave



Hello Dave,

For Texas:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu....000162.00.htm

look at paragraph "162.125 (c) 4"

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinf.../06-forms.html

under "refunds"

Note, I have no experience with this, but it does sound pretty interesting!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

John... I think I got the thread pasted onto the wrong reply by another
person.. but I think everyone can follow it.



Ok.. this is TEXAS specific information.. but the STATE tax of $0.20/gal
appears to be 100% refundable.

paste
excepts Sec. 153.104. Exceptions and Sec. 153.119 Refunds

Gasoline delivered to a permitted aviation fuel dealer and solely for
use in aircraft and aircraft servicing equipment is excluded from
taxation. Likewise, gasoline sold from one aviation fuel dealer to
another aviation fuel dealer is not subject to tax. Taxes paid on
gasoline for aircraft and aircraft servicing equipment uses are subject
to refund.
Snip

the LAST sentence is the key. So.. that right there is a significant
amount of $$ that in Texas appears to be refundable.

Next step is to look at the IRS and see if any of the federal portion is
refundable.

Dave


Dave S wrote:

Thanks for the point out, John... I need to do some homework (I havent
read the links just yet).. but I may have gone off half cocked with
regards to the entire tax load being refundable/deductible.

I intend to look into this and see what I can come up with. The
fuel/fleet card vendors on a national level (Fuelman and
Chevron/Texaco.. the likely sources nearby me) were not very helpful and
in their case the deductions that I spoke of appear to be directly
related to the previous account I set up being a "fire dept" which was a
quasigovernmental agency..

Anyways.. I am going to do some research and get back to you guys.

Dave

John Clonts wrote:

"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...

The folks here who are running autogas.. I have a question for you.

Preface: When I was tasked by my volunteer fire department 10 years ago
to stamp out fuel credit card abuse and fraud, I secured the services of
a certain brand's fleet card system. The sales vendor who set up our
account told me that any of our OFF ROAD engines were eligible to be
billed free of the state and federal highway fuel taxes. In the fire
dept's case this was for generators and free standing pumps.. but our
"off road" gasoline useage was so light that it wasnt even worth the


hassle.

So.. Since aircraft (with the exception of Mr Moller's wannabe Skycar
and a few others) are not considered licensed motor vehicles for the
purpose of the fuel taxes, do you guys make an effort to obtain fuel
with a special account that gives credit for these taxes? In Texas the
amount is 38.5 cents/gal and over a year or so that can add up to real
money (especially in light of the discounted price of autogas compared
to 100LL)

I'm presuming some method of accounting would be needed in the event of
an audit.. but just wanted to see if 1) anyone else was aware of this 2)
does it still exist and 3) does anyone do it?

I figured Jay Honeck would be a perfect example of someone who could do
this, since he has his Mighty Grape (TM) fuel shuttlemobile. If the
Texas rates apply I would guess this could drop Atlas's operating costs
by $4-$6 per hour (40 cents x 10-15 GPH). Fillup of the Grape's 60 gal
tank would be about $23-$24 cheaper. Every little bit helps.

I was planning on contacting Fuelman/Rushce about their fuelcard setup
but havent gotten to it just yet (many months out from flying the
Velocity with auto conversion)...

So.. anyone have input, feedback, comment?
Dave




Hello Dave,

For Texas:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu....000162.00.htm


look at paragraph "162.125 (c) 4"

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinf.../06-forms.html

under "refunds"

Note, I have no experience with this, but it does sound pretty
interesting!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ