Landing a warrior

I am a 130 hour PP, and the bulk of my time is in various cessnas (152s and
172's) I've always thought myself decent at landing

Until now. I've recently joined a flying club that has a c182 and a warrior.
My my last 20 or so hours are in the warrior. I bet I 've gotten as few as
5 landings that I'm proud of in that time. Nothing dangerous, just massive
floating, followed by clunking it in with maybe even a bounce or 2. Usually
just one. I'm aware of the inhanced ground effect present in a low-wing
plane. I fly my aproaches at around 65 knots with the second noch of flaps.
I seem to have similar struggles with no and full flaps.

Again, these are all landings that my passengers think are great. I'm just
used to getting great results in the cessnas, and wish to do the same in the
warrior.

Dan Moos wrote:
Until now. I've recently joined a flying club that has a c182 and a warrior.
My my last 20 or so hours are in the warrior. I bet I 've gotten as few as
5 landings that I'm proud of in that time. Nothing dangerous, just massive
floating, followed by clunking it in with maybe even a bounce or 2. Usually
just one. I'm aware of the inhanced ground effect present in a low-wing
plane. I fly my aproaches at around 65 knots with the second noch of flaps.
I seem to have similar struggles with no and full flaps.

You didn't mention if you are doing power-on or power-off approaches. In
a Warrior, unless you are following other traffic around the pattern,
your approaches should all be power off.

If you are floating, you are too fast.
1.3Vso is fine coming down final, but by the time you get to the runway
threshold, you need to have bled the airspeed off to about five knots
above stall. Holding pitch attitude as the airspeed bleeds off will
allow the aircraft to settle predictably onto the runway. Continue to
hold the nose off the runway until the elevator loses effectiveness
unless you are braking for short field landings. Braking will cause the
nose wheel to slam onto the runway.

As a CFI I've done a few privates in the Warrior. Its one of my
favorite planes and I'd take it over a 172 any day. It sounds like
your landings are too fast. Slow it down a bit more and you'll kill
some of the float. Killing the float will help prevent you from
flaring too high since the flare will mesh better with the approach.
That should get rid of the clunking. At worse, it doesn't sound like
anything that couldn't be fixed with an hour of dual. Also, make sure
when you do drop it in, pull the elevator back to the stops, don't
smash that nose wheel, they are very fragile.

-Robert, CFI



"Dan Moos" wrote in message ...
I am a 130 hour PP, and the bulk of my time is in various cessnas (152s and
172's) I've always thought myself decent at landing

Until now. I've recently joined a flying club that has a c182 and a warrior.
My my last 20 or so hours are in the warrior. I bet I 've gotten as few as
5 landings that I'm proud of in that time. Nothing dangerous, just massive
floating, followed by clunking it in with maybe even a bounce or 2. Usually
just one. I'm aware of the inhanced ground effect present in a low-wing
plane. I fly my aproaches at around 65 knots with the second noch of flaps.
I seem to have similar struggles with no and full flaps.

Again, these are all landings that my passengers think are great. I'm just
used to getting great results in the cessnas, and wish to do the same in the
warrior.

My Warrior book says 63 knots, but who's counting? Why not full flaps???? I
have a zillion hours instructing in Cherokees/Warriors and I can't remember
ever teaching a student to use two notches for landing.

Bob Gardner

"Dan Moos" wrote in message
...
I am a 130 hour PP, and the bulk of my time is in various cessnas (152s
and
172's) I've always thought myself decent at landing

Until now. I've recently joined a flying club that has a c182 and a
warrior.
My my last 20 or so hours are in the warrior. I bet I 've gotten as few
as
5 landings that I'm proud of in that time. Nothing dangerous, just massive
floating, followed by clunking it in with maybe even a bounce or 2.
Usually
just one. I'm aware of the inhanced ground effect present in a low-wing
plane. I fly my aproaches at around 65 knots with the second noch of
flaps.
I seem to have similar struggles with no and full flaps.

Again, these are all landings that my passengers think are great. I'm just
used to getting great results in the cessnas, and wish to do the same in
the
warrior.

You didn't mention if you are doing power-on or power-off approaches. In
a Warrior, unless you are following other traffic around the pattern,
your approaches should all be power off.

???

I don't think I ever landed our Warrior power off, in the 450 hours we put
on her...even on short fields.

Carry a little power into the flare -- you'll be amazed at the greasers you
can pull off!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

My Warrior book says 63 knots, but who's counting? Why not full flaps????
I
have a zillion hours instructing in Cherokees/Warriors and I can't
remember
ever teaching a student to use two notches for landing.

The only time to use two notches is (a) in strong cross winds or (b) in
squirrelly high winds.

While it's not necessary, two notches give you a flatter, slightly faster
approach that lets you "bust through" the cross wind or wind shear a bit
better than the steeper, slower full-flaps approach...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article , Neal
wrote:
Hmmmm, I use two notches to land all the time. All three notches and
my hershybar-wing Cherokee points the nose down so much more steeply
then I lose too much energy in the flare and clumsily drop it on the
mains with a thud.

Don't commit the last notch of flaps until you are over the threshold,
then use pitch trim to reduce elevator pressure.

Well, I've graduated a lot of students over the years, and to the best of my
knowledge none of them has ever had a landing accident. Normal landings are
full-flap landings, even in a crosswind...minimum touchdown speed is the
key, with anti-xwind controls. Page 5-24 of my Warrior book ("Landing
Performance") is predicated on full flaps, power off, and max braking. The
chart is NOT labeled "short field landing." Page 4-14, under normal
procedures for approach and landing, hedges a bit...still calls for full
flaps and 63, but allows as how enough power should be carried to maintain
the desired speed and approach path (no argument there). No mention of
crosswind technique, but when Boeing Field had a 60 degree xwind at 15-20
knots or so I would call my students and say "Come on down....we're gonna do
some full-flap crosswind landings."

You can do lots of things in a low-wing airplane that would be questionable
in a high-wing airplane.

Did I mention that I was an examiner when I worked at the Piper FBO?

Bob Gardner


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:TFS_a.146359$YN5.95266@sccrnsc01...
My Warrior book says 63 knots, but who's counting? Why not full
flaps????
I
have a zillion hours instructing in Cherokees/Warriors and I can't
remember
ever teaching a student to use two notches for landing.

The only time to use two notches is (a) in strong cross winds or (b) in
squirrelly high winds.

While it's not necessary, two notches give you a flatter, slightly faster
approach that lets you "bust through" the cross wind or wind shear a bit
better than the steeper, slower full-flaps approach...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article ,
Dan Moos wrote:
My my last 20 or so hours are in the warrior. I bet I 've gotten as few as
5 landings that I'm proud of in that time. Nothing dangerous, just massive
floating, followed by clunking it in with maybe even a bounce or 2.
[...]
used to getting great results in the cessnas, and wish to do the same in the

I'm transitioning from 172's to a Comanche right now. The mistake I
keep making is rounding out too high. I know how a landing is going
to turn out way before I touch down. My last landing I distinctly
remember the "ooh, that's just right" followed by rolling it on. Now
I've got to make that happen every time.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:19:48 -0500, Nick Funk
wrote:

Speed control is the key factor for stabilized approach and landing any
plane. With the Warrior I cross the numbers at a speed no greater then
70 knots, and usually try for 65 knots with 1 or 2 knotches of flaps.
This will keep floating to a minimum. If you need a little more time to
stabilize after the flare, than give yourself a few more extra knots of
speed.
I used to fly a Cherokee 180. I always used full flaps and never had a
problem with float. With full flaps that sucker comes down like a
brick. I'd apply the last notch of flaps in the roundout., unless it
was a short field and then it was full flaps coming down a *steep*
final.

Any float is a sign of too much speed.


I used to rent planes and switching from a C-152, C172, C-182 and
Warriors or Cherokees (hersey bar wing) gave me the opportunity to learn
the different idiosyncrasies of landing each plane. I miss that now
since I own a Cherokee 180 now.

I loved that old Cherokee 180. Climbed great and could land in a
pretty short distance. It was light enough with enough power it could
get into and out of some pretty small grass strips.

The only problem I ever had was cleaning the green goo off the wing
from a few tall weeds here and there.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Nick
PA-28-180 'D'

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