New Bombardier-Rotax engines

Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

They won't give them to you.

Mike
MU-2


"rgb" wrote in message
.. .

Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

Neither Lycoming or Continental do :-( too bad !

Mike Rapoport wrote:
They won't give them to you.

Mike
MU-2


"rgb" wrote in message
.. .

Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

rgb

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?

If they have solved that problem with their 'electro-deposit' coating.
fine, but I sure wouldn't be the 'first one' to buy.

Think one of the problems is that any coating of the aluminum cylinder
expands at a different rate than the aluminum and this starts the
failure?

Should be some experts on aluminum engines around here on rah that can
give good technical advice about what they are trying to do and
expected results and longevity.

Big John


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:42 -0400, rgb wrote:


Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

Big,

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?


Can you explain further? Are the engine blocks aluminum on the
Bombardiers? That's quite common in the auto industry, isn't it? Also,
do you have the feeling anything could be much worse with regard to
premature cylinder problems than current TCM/Lycoming stuff?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Big,

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?


Can you explain further? Are the engine blocks aluminum on the
Bombardiers? That's quite common in the auto industry, isn't it? Also,
do you have the feeling anything could be much worse with regard to
premature cylinder problems than current TCM/Lycoming stuff?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


They appear to be coated aluminum cylinders. The problem that I see is that
the engines run up to 6000 rpm, and are geared 3:1. This makes for a lot of
piston (wear) strokes, and also the added possibility of gearbox problems.
The FADEC engine controls eliminate some control complexity, but more
problems seem folded back in with the liquid cooling.

I don't see a lot of folks standing in line to replace their current engines
until someone *else* runs a few to TBO and publishes cost and performance
analysis.

I think everyone is waiting for a bulletproof JP fueled diesel.

Pepperoni,

The problem that I see is that

Based upon what? Are you an engine construction engineer specializing in
aluminum engines? Or is it just "gut feel"?

the engines run up to 6000 rpm, and are geared 3:1.

Not in cruise.

but more
problems seem folded back in with the liquid cooling.


Again: Says who? Liquid cooling seems to be a total non-issue with the
Rotaxes, the new diesels and engines in general.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...

the engines run up to 6000 rpm, and are geared 3:1.

Not in cruise.

Even in cruise, the engine will run much higher rpms than your "usual"
engines. Your current engine will run 1200 rpm to spin the output shaft at
1200rpm, the new engine will be running 3600rpm to spin the shaft at
1200rpm. If you don't believe *Me*, ask someone competent to do the math
for you.


but more
problems seem folded back in with the liquid cooling.


........ Liquid cooling seems to be a total non-issue with the
Rotaxes, the new diesels and engines in general.

Liquid cooling does become an issue when you run out of coolant. A 2 gallon
reservoir is fine on a test stand with 3 techs standing around to keep an
eye on the run, but at night in the clouds or mountains, you will be
wondering how long it will take the engine to overheat and time to an
airport when a hose or gasket lets go.

Will an "engine in general" run for more than 30 minutes without coolant,
and would you bet your favorite coon dog's life on it?

I don't know alot about engines :-/ I'm still a little private pilot who
rent plane ...

Some folks seems to be pretty please with there Rotax 912S so I was
thinking those 2 new engines might give Lycoming and Continental a
little challenge, maybe not ...
For what I can see thoses good old Lycomings are quiet good, but kindof
expensive .

:-)


Big John wrote:

rgb

We've had aluminum auto engines without liners and as I recall they
had a pretty high cylinder failure rate?

If they have solved that problem with their 'electro-deposit' coating.
fine, but I sure wouldn't be the 'first one' to buy.

Think one of the problems is that any coating of the aluminum cylinder
expands at a different rate than the aluminum and this starts the
failure?

Should be some experts on aluminum engines around here on rah that can
give good technical advice about what they are trying to do and
expected results and longevity.

Big John


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:41:42 -0400, rgb wrote:


Take a look at those 2 new V piston engines :-)

http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/theConcept.asp

Not bad ! I might call for prices :-)

rgb wrote in message ...

Some folks seems to be pretty please with there Rotax 912S so I was
thinking those 2 new engines might give Lycoming and Continental a
little challenge, maybe not ...
For what I can see thoses good old Lycomings are quiet good, but kindof
expensive .

Liquid cooling looks like it'll make it difficult to retrofit to
existing designs. I wouldn't be surprised to see a company like
Diamond modify one of their designs for it.

How they can run a 10.8 to 1 compression ratio on 87 octane gas is a
neat trick. I'm sure temp stabilization from liquid cooling helps,
but that still seems like a very high ratio for the low octane fuel.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)