Full before landing checklist in the pattern?

How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152

Hi BoDean

I do, and I believe that CFI's should teach this. Here is why.
Forget the 152/172 for the purpose of this discussion. To better and more
obviously illustrate the point let's assume that we are in a retractable.
If on every single approach we know that the gear is up, then we know, and
are reminded by our checklists, to put it down prior to landing. But what
if we are just doing pattern work, and decide not to raise the gear on
takeoff? Now we have created a scenario where on final approach our gear
is no longer guaranteed up. It may be up and it may be down - and one day
we'll get it wrong - we didn't need to create that situation!
Now to go back to your 152/172 Scenario. If everything is always a given,
we know where we stand. But if we teach students one way in a circuit, and
another way on a cross country, then we are sowing the seeds of confusion.
Something that we don't need on final, when we are tired after a long
flight.
So - the pre-landing checklist for a 172 is no big deal. It isn't being
abbreviated for the students benefit, therefore it must be being
abbreviated because the instructor can't be bothered with the workload.
That shouldn't be happening.

That's my 2 - 3 cents worth

--
Tony Roberts )
PP-ASEL
VFR-OTT - Night
Cessna 172H

In article ,
BoDEAN wrote:

How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152



The landing checklist should be second nature, as the pattern is no
place to have your head down, buried in a checklist!

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152


Personally, I am not a fan of the full landing checklist in the patter
philosophy. What I do, and how it was explained to me, was the before landing
checklist is completed before you enter the pattern, and at some point in the
pattern, review on downwind a quick check: gas, undercarrige, mixture, prop.
Then on short final, review gear down and prop set.

My rationale- you will not always be flying a traffic pattern. When breaking
out of an approach or getting vectored into a controlled field, you often times
will land straight-in. In this situation, it would be very easy to miss the
landing checklist, because you always do it on downwind. Other times, in
faster, more complex aircraft, your landing checklist might not fit on downwind
a 152 is mags, carb heat, mixture, fuel; I can get that in a few seconds;
something more complex might take longer and not fit.

There will always be an "approaching the airport" leg to do the landing
checklist in, and always be a short final to check the last minute "gotcha's"
At least that's my philosophy, take it for what it's worth.

--
Mike

Seat belts, gas on, mixture, carb heat, land. How can you do any more or
any less in a Cessna 172/152/150? Please enlighten me.

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft Musketeer Super III
(Seat belts, gas fullest tank, mixture, land for this plane)

BoDEAN wrote:

How many people do / teach doing a full before landing checklist when
doing pattern work? I do with my students, but other cfi's I work with
use a quick / abbreviated one for our Cessna 172/152

Steve Robertson wrote:

Seat belts, gas on, mixture, carb heat, land. How can you do any more or
any less in a Cessna 172/152/150? Please enlighten me.

Skip the seatbelts. Probably the gas too in a 172.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:14 GMT, Newps wrote:

Skip the seatbelts.

That's probably the only thing on the list required by regulation:


http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/c...4cfr91_00.html
§ 91.107 Use of safety belts, shoulder harnesses, and child
restraint systems.
...
(2) No pilot may cause to be moved on the surface, take off, or
land a U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that
incorporates a basket or gondola, or an airship type certificated
before November 2, 1987) unless the pilot in command of that aircraft
ensures that each person on board has been notified to fasten his or
her safety belt and, if installed, his or her shoulder harness.

(3) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board a
U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that
incorporates a basket or gondola or an airship type certificated
before November 2, 1987) must occupy an approved seat or berth with a
safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness, properly secured
about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.
For seaplane and float equipped rotorcraft operations during movement
on the surface, the person pushing off the seaplane or rotorcraft from
the dock and the person mooring the seaplane or rotorcraft at the dock
are excepted from the preceding seating and safety belt requirements.
....

wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:14 GMT, Newps wrote:


Skip the seatbelts.


That's probably the only thing on the list required by regulation:

Yeah, that's my point. Who takes them off?

Newps wrote:

That's probably the only thing on the list required by regulation:

Yeah, that's my point. Who takes them off?

You never know. Actually, it doesn't matter. The reg requires you to notify
all passengers whether they have the belts on or not.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:36:01 GMT, Newps wrote in
Message-Id: 09zqb.95717$9E1.460682@attbi_s52:



wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:14 GMT, Newps wrote:


Skip the seatbelts.


That's probably the only thing on the list required by regulation:

Yeah, that's my point. Who takes them off?

How can the PIC know if passenger(s) have their belts & harnesses
fastened, if s/he doesn't check?

"Newps" wrote in message
news:09zqb.95717$9E1.460682@attbi_s52...


wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:14 GMT, Newps wrote:


Skip the seatbelts.


That's probably the only thing on the list required by regulation:

Yeah, that's my point. Who takes them off?

I do. They wrinkle my dress.

Tom