Logging time as safety pilot?

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

you can only log the time as acting PIC when either your hands are on the
controls, or you are acting as safety pilot while he is under the hood.. any
other time is not loggable..

but to act as safety pilot for someone under the hood.. you have to hold at
least a private pilot certificate and be qualified to fly the aircraft

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

BT

"CFLav8r" wrote in message
. com...
I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

you can only log the time as acting PIC when either your hands are on the
controls, or you are acting as safety pilot while he is under the hood.. any
other time is not loggable..


If you are really a safety pilot (he's under the hood and you are responsible
for aluminum and granite), then if you are ALSO acting as PIC you can log PIC
time. The other pilot can also log PIC time as "sole manipulator" even though
he's not acting as PIC.

However, if the safety pilot is NOT ACTING as PIC (and not the final authority
as to the operation of the aircraft), then he cannot log PIC. (If he is the
sole manipulator of the controls too, he's not the safety pilot, he's the real
pilot). However, he can log SIC time as a required crewmember.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Assuming an aircraft that normally only requires a crew of ONE..

Safety pilot time is SIC (except as noted).. during that period of time
the friend is under the hood, the safety pilot is a "required crewmember".

However, during this period of time, if BOTH of you agree that you (the
safety pilot) ARE the PIC, then you can log it as PIC during the period
of time the friend is under the hood. The hood friend can also log it as
PIC as sole manipulator. Keep in mind.. if the airplane goes somewhere
it shouldnt, or something happens the PIC is likely to be held
accountable.. so a little bit of trust is in order.

The question is answered somewhat in the FAA FAQ's section regarding
Part 61 on their website (at least it was at one time).

Dave

BTIZ wrote:
you can only log the time as acting PIC when either your hands are on the
controls, or you are acting as safety pilot while he is under the hood.. any
other time is not loggable..

but to act as safety pilot for someone under the hood.. you have to hold at
least a private pilot certificate and be qualified to fly the aircraft

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

BT

"CFLav8r" wrote in message
. com...

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

"Dave S" wrote in message nk.net...
Keep in mind.. if the airplane goes somewhere
it shouldnt, or something happens the PIC is likely to be held
accountable.. so a little bit of trust is in order.


In practice, all pilots aboard are going to be held accountable. The
enforcement action will follow the one most likely to be harmed by the
action rather than any sense of responsibility. The FAA is not interested
in justice nor safety.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:39:42 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

And for acting as safety pilot, those who so state would be wrong.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

agreed.. but thrown out there for further discussion..

I wonder what the FAQ file for Part 61 says... mmmm

BT

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:39:42 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

And for acting as safety pilot, those who so state would be wrong.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:33:19 -0800, "BTIZ" wrote:

I wonder what the FAQ file for Part 61 says... mmmm


Are you talking about the FAQ's before or after Pinkston's initial
interpretation was corrected?


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Revision 19, John D Lynch:

QUESTION: According to § 91.109(b), a safety pilot must possess at least a
private certificate with appropriate category & class ratings. Is it
necessary for that safety pilot to be "current" in the aircraft (landings,
etc.)? Requirements of 61.55 specifically exempt safety pilots [§
61.55(d)(4)], but where are the safety pilot criteria actually spelled out.
§ 61.57 refers to pilot-in-command requirements, but a safety pilot is not
PIC, only a required crew member. Further, has there ever been an
interpretation that the safety pilot must be Instrument Rated for that type
of VFR operation?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.31(d)(1); § 61.51(e)(1)(iii), § 61.51(f)(2), § 61.3(c); §
61.56(c), § 61.57(c); A safety pilot is a "required crewmember" and must
hold at least a valid private pilot certificate with category and class
ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown per § 91.109(b) and a valid
medical certificate per § 61.3(c). A valid pilot certificate is one which
has not been revoked or under suspension.

That person who is serving as a safety pilot may choose to act as the legal
pilot-in-command (per 14 CFR part 1) and log the time as PIC [per §
61.51(e)(1)(iii)], or otherwise log the time as SIC time [per §
61.51(f)(2)], but is not even required to log the time at all. However, the
safety pilot's name must be logged by the person practicing instrument
flight [per § 61.51(g)(3)(ii)]. If the safety pilot is going to act as the
legal PIC for the flight that person must ". . . Hold the appropriate
category, class, and type rating (if a class rating and type rating are
required) for the aircraft to be flown;" [per § 61.31(d)(1)]. ). And if the
flight is conducted in a high performance, complex, tail wheel, etc.
aircraft and the safety pilot is acting as the legal PIC that pilot must
have the appropriate endorsements that are required by § 61.31(e), (f)
and/or (i), as appropriate. This could be a reason why a safety pilot might
only be able to serve as an SIC and log it as SIC time.



"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:33:19 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:

I wonder what the FAQ file for Part 61 says... mmmm


Are you talking about the FAQ's before or after Pinkston's initial
interpretation was corrected?


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

BTIZ wrote:

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

Those that do are wrong. You need to be rated in category and class; that's all.
You only need the endorsements to act as PIC.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.