Potential $300 increase in contest fees?

Reading the latest Rules Committee meeting minutes I see item number 14 slips a "tax" in the rules. $50 charge by waiver for any contest pilot showing up without a crew. Note it is $50 PER DAY!

This was not included in the pilot poll, we currently have a sanctioning fee surplus, the minutes state that almost all of the 2012 contests reported a profit.

Is it productive to increase contest fees by $300 for participants? Will this create more or less participation in regionals? Is there really an unbearable burden placed on contest organizers when it comes to crewless pilots?

As an active contest pilot with a wife that participates 50% of the time I have found that my "friend pool" has done an effective job of retrieving for each other. We make the required call to the retrieve office but in reality we arrange our own retrieves.

If you feel that the $300 "tax" is unwarranted please voice your opinion.

Lane
XF

On Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:05:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Reading the latest Rules Committee meeting minutes I see item number 14 slips a "tax" in the rules. $50 charge by waiver for any contest pilot showing up without a crew. Note it is $50 PER DAY!



This was not included in the pilot poll, we currently have a sanctioning fee surplus, the minutes state that almost all of the 2012 contests reported a profit.



Is it productive to increase contest fees by $300 for participants? Will this create more or less participation in regionals? Is there really an unbearable burden placed on contest organizers when it comes to crewless pilots?



As an active contest pilot with a wife that participates 50% of the time I have found that my "friend pool" has done an effective job of retrieving for each other. We make the required call to the retrieve office but in reality we arrange our own retrieves.



If you feel that the $300 "tax" is unwarranted please voice your opinion.



Lane

XF

Possibly the word "tax" should be replaced with "penalty". And possibly the rules committee is stating that they neither encourage or prohibit such a charge but are in fact neutral. I just want to squish this counterproductive idea right now!

Lane
XF

In article ,
wrote:

On Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:05:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Reading the latest Rules Committee meeting minutes I see item number 14
slips a "tax" in the rules. $50 charge by waiver for any contest pilot
showing up without a crew. Note it is $50 PER DAY!



This was not included in the pilot poll, we currently have a sanctioning
fee surplus, the minutes state that almost all of the 2012 contests
reported a profit.



Is it productive to increase contest fees by $300 for participants? Will
this create more or less participation in regionals? Is there really an
unbearable burden placed on contest organizers when it comes to crewless
pilots?



As an active contest pilot with a wife that participates 50% of the time I
have found that my "friend pool" has done an effective job of retrieving
for each other. We make the required call to the retrieve office but in
reality we arrange our own retrieves.



If you feel that the $300 "tax" is unwarranted please voice your opinion.



Lane

XF

Possibly the word "tax" should be replaced with "penalty". And possibly the
rules committee is stating that they neither encourage or prohibit such a
charge but are in fact neutral. I just want to squish this counterproductive
idea right now!

Lane
XF


Thanks for catching this and bringing to wider attention, Lane.

Any contest charging $300 for showing up crewless would not have me as
an entrant. For starters, I suspect that such a contest would not draw
enough entrants to make in the first place. Second, I can't afford it.
Not everyone flying contests has a $100k rig with bucks to spare.

WB
Flying a roughly Libelle shaped pile of fiberglass, with a B-40 as the
most sophisticated instrument in the panel, and a 25 year-old crew
vehicle.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

At 16:15 17 December 2012, Wallace Berry wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

On Sunday, December 16, 2012 12:05:45 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
Reading the latest Rules Committee meeting minutes I see item number
14

slips a "tax" in the rules. $50 charge by waiver for any contest
pilot

showing up without a crew. Note it is $50 PER DAY!



This was not included in the pilot poll, we currently have a
sanctioning
fee surplus, the minutes state that almost all of the 2012 contests
reported a profit.



Is it productive to increase contest fees by $300 for participants?
Will
this create more or less participation in regionals? Is there really
an
unbearable burden placed on contest organizers when it comes to
crewless
pilots?



As an active contest pilot with a wife that participates 50% of the
time I
have found that my "friend pool" has done an effective job of
retrieving
for each other. We make the required call to the retrieve office but
in
reality we arrange our own retrieves.



If you feel that the $300 "tax" is unwarranted please voice your
opinion.



Lane

XF

Possibly the word "tax" should be replaced with "penalty". And
possibly
the
rules committee is stating that they neither encourage or prohibit such
a

charge but are in fact neutral. I just want to squish this
counterproductive
idea right now!

Lane
XF


Thanks for catching this and bringing to wider attention, Lane.

Any contest charging $300 for showing up crewless would not have me as
an entrant. For starters, I suspect that such a contest would not draw
enough entrants to make in the first place. Second, I can't afford it.
Not everyone flying contests has a $100k rig with bucks to spare.

WB
Flying a roughly Libelle shaped pile of fiberglass, with a B-40 as the
most sophisticated instrument in the panel, and a 25 year-old crew
vehicle.

Now if there was a $50 'Au Vache' charge which was passed on without
deduction to the unfortunate who has to retrieve you, it would seem only
fair.

vehicle.

Now if there was a $50 'Au Vache' charge which was passed on without
deduction to the unfortunate who has to retrieve you, it would seem only
fair.


Isn't it already customary to buy the retrieve crew dinner?


Heck, if I had $50 for every time I have retrieved someone else, I could
have almost paid for all of the times I have been retrieved.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

As if a contest isn't already expensive enough! This rule will cause
contest participation to go down. I for one, will not be attending
any contests that apply this $300 fee.

$500 in gas getting to the contest
$500 for a place to stay (hotel, or RV rental)
$600 in contest fees
$200 for nightly dinners

That's $1,800 total for 6 days of soaring!

Add another $300 for a grand total of $2,100 for 6 days of flying.

For $2,100 I can take my wife and two kids on a 7 day all inclusive
Caribbean cruise!!!!

.......or I can fly crew less on my own for 6 day at my home airport
for $270 ( 6 tows at $45 each).


In my humble opinion, this will greatly lower contest participation if
implemented.

I think this has to do with a great deal of frustration by the contest management from some pilots (solo and even with crews) going into "beer thirty" mode when their glider comes to a stop on the runway. Instead of the pilot quickly getting out and clearing their glider from the runway, moving it immediately to their tiedown and THEN beginning the BS session, they start right away with any pilot near them on what a day they had. NO consideration of the guys landing behind them, just selfishness on their part. I see this at every contest I fly and it has happened to me multiple times at Parowan where the situation is heightened by the airport configuration. Safety can obviously become a factor. I can fully understand and support contest managements fee/fine for such rude behavior.

On Sunday, December 23, 2012 2:19:01 PM UTC-5, Scott Alexander wrote:
As if a contest isn't already expensive enough! This rule will cause contest participation to go down. I for one, will not be attending any contests that apply this $300 fee. $500 in gas getting to the contest $500 for a place to stay (hotel, or RV rental) $600 in contest fees $200 for nightly dinners That's $1,800 total for 6 days of soaring! Add another $300 for a grand total of $2,100 for 6 days of flying. For $2,100 I can take my wife and two kids on a 7 day all inclusive Caribbean cruise!!!! ......or I can fly crew less on my own for 6 day at my home airport for $270 ( 6 tows at $45 each). In my humble opinion, this will greatly lower contest participation if implemented.

To repeat- THIS IS NOT A RULE! AND it will not become one.
That said, if an organizer asks to be able to put such a policy in place, the RC will likely permit it.
My prdiction is that the market will say "Hell no" and the idea will die a quiet death.
UH
RC Chair

On Dec 16, 11:05*am, wrote:
Reading the latest Rules Committee meeting minutes I see item number 14 slips a "tax" in the rules. *$50 charge by waiver for any contest pilot showing up without a crew. *Note it is $50 PER DAY!

This was not included in the pilot poll, we currently have a sanctioning fee surplus, the minutes state that almost all of the 2012 contests reported a profit.

Is it productive to increase contest fees by $300 for participants? *Will this create more or less participation in regionals? *Is there really an unbearable burden placed on contest organizers when it comes to crewless pilots?

As an active contest pilot with a wife that participates 50% of the time I have found that my "friend pool" has done an effective job of retrieving for each other. *We make the required call to the retrieve office but in reality we arrange our own retrieves.

If you feel that the $300 "tax" is unwarranted please voice your opinion.

Lane
XF

Whoa there, let's not get too exited. Here is the minutes item

14. Permit organizers to charge increased entry for pilots that show
up without a crew.
Suggestion is for $50/day surcharge. Larry Knauer 6/4/12.

Discussed and decided that organizers may request waivers for
additional fees.
Caution that such a charge may cause pilots to expect specific
services and
assistance in return for the fee.

There is absolutely no movement towards implementing such fees in the
rules!

Larry didn't make a lot of money at Parowan and was annoyed by
problems some crewless pilots were causing him, especially clearing
the runway at the end of the day. He put in the suggestion, and like
all suggestions we receive, it made its way on to the agenda.

We tend to be pretty free-market about regionals, so if someone really
wants something like this, he can try it by waiver.

If anyone asks RC advice, however, most of us (I'd say all of us, but
I can't remember exactly) would counsel that a $300 tax for showing up
crewless would be a terrible idea, for all sorts of obvious reasons.
There are better ways to organize launch and runway clearing issues.

The "expect services" summarizes a longer discussion. As a perpetually
crewless pilot, I would be delighted to pay $300...IF, what I get in
return is, someone to bring my stuff back, park my car, retrieve me at
the end of the day, come get me when I land out, and have a cold beer
waiting. $300 is cheap compared to the cost of bringing along a full
time crew.

A pure tax with no service is going to cause a lot of resentment and,
more importantly, pilots will simply vote with their feet and go to
more welcoming contests.

I'm glad to see people are reading the minutes. Hint: Keep going.

John Cochrane

As one of the officials at the Parowan Nationals, I can echo Larry's frustration with pilots that failed to properly control their energy management on landing - I ended up being one of the "volunteer" crews for some of these dingbats.

My solution would be quite different. Rather than penalize crew-less pilots, I would charge repeat offenders a retrieval fee of $1 for each foot that their glider falls short of any required runway exit. Blocking the single runway at the end of the day when dozens of gliders are returning is horrible airmanship.

To put this in perspective, at least one glider was over a thousand feet short!

Mike