American Spirit / Falcon Owners

Does anyone on this forum currently own/fly and American Falcon or Spirit? I am keen to talk with you. Please send me an email off the forum ) or give me a call 250-792-4850.

Thanks,

Andrew Doepner

On Feb 9, 12:27*pm, wrote:
Does anyone on this forum currently own/fly and American Falcon or Spirit? I am keen to talk with you. Please send me an email off the forum ) or give me a call 250-792-4850.

Thanks,

Andrew Doepner

Andrew, do you have one of those ships or kits?

Thanks, Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:21:20 PM UTC-8, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Feb 9, 12:27*pm, wrote:

Does anyone on this forum currently own/fly and American Falcon or Spirit? I am keen to talk with you. Please send me an email off the forum ) or give me a call 250-792-4850.



Thanks,



Andrew Doepner



Andrew, do you have one of those ships or kits?



Thanks, Bob K.

http://www.hpaircraft.com

Bob,

I do not own one. I am contemplating buying one and am looking for more information from current owners and former or current builders.

Andrew

At 05:09 11 February 2013, wrote:
On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:21:20 PM UTC-8, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Feb 9, 12:27=A0pm, wrote:
=20
Does anyone on this forum currently own/fly and American Falcon or
Spir=
it? I am keen to talk with you. Please send me an email off the forum
(doep=
) or give me a call 250-792-4850.
=20

=20
Thanks,
=20

=20
Andrew Doepner
=20
=20
=20
Andrew, do you have one of those ships or kits?
=20
=20
=20
Thanks, Bob K.
=20
http://www.hpaircraft.com

Bob,=20

I do not own one. I am contemplating buying one and am looking for more
inf=
ormation from current owners and former or current builders.

Andrew

I appologise right from the strart if Iv'e got this wrong.
There was a thread on this forum about a mold taken off a crashed ventus
and used for a short production run,was that mixed up with the spirit?

On Feb 10, 9:09*pm, wrote:

I do not own one. I am contemplating buying one and am looking
for more information from current owners and former or current builders.

Andrew, there are a couple of things you need to know about the Spirit/
Falcon:

* Full disclosu I offer a competing sailplane kit, so anything I
tell you should be automatically suspect. You have to do your homework
on this.

* Static tests of the as-originally-designed wing structure have
failed in static test at less than the design load limit; the wing
should have been good for at least 1.5 times the design limit. The
problem seems to have been shear failure of the wing root rib where
the transverse pin on the opposite wing spar plugs into it.

* Fixes for the root rib shear issue were designed and at least one
builder tested them. Make sure you know what the fixes are and how to
implement them.

* There are a number of ASC ships that are operational and get flown
regularly, so it is apparently possible to make a usable sailplane out
of one.

* I have satisfied myself that the Spirit and Falcon are relatively
direct copies of a crashed Ventus that was used to make the ASC molds.
However, I haven't gotten any of the remaining principals to go in
record to that effect.

* ASC founder Tor Jensen was killed in 2006 in a motorcycle accident
near Reed's Pinnacle in Yosemite, so he is not available to offer
advice.

* Ralph Luebke seems to be the go-to guy for the various fixes and
upgrades, I wouldn't consider buying a kit without talking with him
about it.

* Marty Eiler of California City flew most of the ASC ships and knew
Tor well; I also recommend you talk with him before buying any ASC kit
or ship.

Wandering off topic, I learned a lot about sailplane design and
development from watching a couple of ASC kits go together at a shop
in Fremont, California:

* Big floppy wing shells and fuselage shells are a real pain for the
builder to align and join, and it is a huge problem if they are
aligned wrong. That is something best done at the kit factory.

* Integrity of the basic structure is key. Static tests to at least
design limit load must be performed and documented.

* Detail design is important in and of itself.

Thanks, Bob K.

At 17:46 11 February 2013, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Feb 10, 9:09=A0pm, wrote:

I do not own one. I am contemplating buying one and am looking
for more information from current owners and former or current
builders.

Andrew, there are a couple of things you need to know about the Spirit/
Falcon:

* Full disclosu I offer a competing sailplane kit, so anything I
tell you should be automatically suspect. You have to do your homework
on this.

* Static tests of the as-originally-designed wing structure have
failed in static test at less than the design load limit; the wing
should have been good for at least 1.5 times the design limit. The
problem seems to have been shear failure of the wing root rib where
the transverse pin on the opposite wing spar plugs into it.

* Fixes for the root rib shear issue were designed and at least one
builder tested them. Make sure you know what the fixes are and how to
implement them.

* There are a number of ASC ships that are operational and get flown
regularly, so it is apparently possible to make a usable sailplane out
of one.

* I have satisfied myself that the Spirit and Falcon are relatively
direct copies of a crashed Ventus that was used to make the ASC molds.
However, I haven't gotten any of the remaining principals to go in
record to that effect.

* ASC founder Tor Jensen was killed in 2006 in a motorcycle accident
near Reed's Pinnacle in Yosemite, so he is not available to offer
advice.

* Ralph Luebke seems to be the go-to guy for the various fixes and
upgrades, I wouldn't consider buying a kit without talking with him
about it.

* Marty Eiler of California City flew most of the ASC ships and knew
Tor well; I also recommend you talk with him before buying any ASC kit
or ship.

Wandering off topic, I learned a lot about sailplane design and
development from watching a couple of ASC kits go together at a shop
in Fremont, California:

* Big floppy wing shells and fuselage shells are a real pain for the
builder to align and join, and it is a huge problem if they are
aligned wrong. That is something best done at the kit factory.

* Integrity of the basic structure is key. Static tests to at least
design limit load must be performed and documented.

* Detail design is important in and of itself.

Thanks, Bob K.

Thank you Bob for laying it out so clearly,I was worried I was stirring the

waters with little knowledge

Tom Riley built and is regularly found flying an exceptionally good example of the ASC Spirit. It is based in Tehachapi, CA.
Jim

In article
,
Bob Kuykendall wrote:
talk with him before buying any ASC kit
or ship.

Wandering off topic, I learned a lot about sailplane design and
development from watching a couple of ASC kits go together at a shop
in Fremont, California:

* Big floppy wing shells and fuselage shells are a real pain for the
builder to align and join, and it is a huge problem if they are
aligned wrong. That is something best done at the kit factory.




I visited that shop once. They had one ASC ship partially assembled and
a set of fuselage shells at that time. I do remember the pieces all
being very floppy. The guy working on them was not at all complementary
of the kit. It was supposed to go together without the need for jigs
(fat chance). He was especially unhappy with trying to close up the
trailing edge of the wings. Apparently, it was hard to get it aligned
and clamped shut before the resin would start to go off. I seem to
remember him saying something about needing 10 guys with little cups of
resin to close the wing.

That guy also told me that it was copied mostly from a Ventus, but that
the cockpit area of the fuselage was bit deeper, thus it would not quite
fit in a clamshell trailer set up for a Ventus. Seems like ASC had their
own trailer design.

WB

On Monday, February 11, 2013 10:46:32 AM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Feb 10, 9:09*pm, wrote:



I do not own one. I am contemplating buying one and am looking

for more information from current owners and former or current builders..



Andrew, there are a couple of things you need to know about the Spirit/

Falcon:



* Full disclosu I offer a competing sailplane kit, so anything I

tell you should be automatically suspect. You have to do your homework

on this.



* Static tests of the as-originally-designed wing structure have

failed in static test at less than the design load limit; the wing

should have been good for at least 1.5 times the design limit. The

problem seems to have been shear failure of the wing root rib where

the transverse pin on the opposite wing spar plugs into it.



* Fixes for the root rib shear issue were designed and at least one

builder tested them. Make sure you know what the fixes are and how to

implement them.



* There are a number of ASC ships that are operational and get flown

regularly, so it is apparently possible to make a usable sailplane out

of one.



* I have satisfied myself that the Spirit and Falcon are relatively

direct copies of a crashed Ventus that was used to make the ASC molds.

However, I haven't gotten any of the remaining principals to go in

record to that effect.



* ASC founder Tor Jensen was killed in 2006 in a motorcycle accident

near Reed's Pinnacle in Yosemite, so he is not available to offer

advice.



* Ralph Luebke seems to be the go-to guy for the various fixes and

upgrades, I wouldn't consider buying a kit without talking with him

about it.



* Marty Eiler of California City flew most of the ASC ships and knew

Tor well; I also recommend you talk with him before buying any ASC kit

or ship.



Wandering off topic, I learned a lot about sailplane design and

development from watching a couple of ASC kits go together at a shop

in Fremont, California:



* Big floppy wing shells and fuselage shells are a real pain for the

builder to align and join, and it is a huge problem if they are

aligned wrong. That is something best done at the kit factory.



* Integrity of the basic structure is key. Static tests to at least

design limit load must be performed and documented.



* Detail design is important in and of itself.



Thanks, Bob K.

Ralph cooked a wing root fix for post build which results in a bump. Contact Dr. Mark Maughmer at Penn State for a construction fix. At least one kit went there for his sailplane design program. Another kit is at Mississippi State. Contact the club. It was nearing completion last year. There was a 95% completion in AZ a couple of years ago. There is a 95% completed prototype in CA according to a recent message. There was one for sale in Boulder over a year ago.

AFAIK, none have failed in flight.

Frank Whiteley

All of the molds, and spare parts etc. for the Spirit now reside in
Toronto, Canada along with one flying example, and one kit, and are sitting
collecting dust currently.