Freelance CFIs and plane rentals??

I posted a message awhile back about one of my relatives offering me
free flight instruction. He's a very experienced airline pilot and
has done a lot of CFI work in the past. He's still current on his CFI
rating, and the plan is to begin training in June (when I have more
money and he has more time).

Do you think there will be any problem with one of the local FBOs
renting us a plane for my training? Obviously they'll want to check
him out and see his history, but beyond that is there anything I need
to know? Obviously we should just make a couple of calls and see what
their policy is, but I just wanted to know if this was a common
situation or not first. TIA!

Sam

Situations vary between schools and insurance carriers, but the ones I am
familiar with require that airplanes covered by the FBO policy be flown by
instructors employed by the FBO. Airline pilot and experience don't count
as much as being an employee. But maybe your situation is different.

Bob Gardner

"Sam" wrote in message
om...
I posted a message awhile back about one of my relatives offering me
free flight instruction. He's a very experienced airline pilot and
has done a lot of CFI work in the past. He's still current on his CFI
rating, and the plan is to begin training in June (when I have more
money and he has more time).

Do you think there will be any problem with one of the local FBOs
renting us a plane for my training? Obviously they'll want to check
him out and see his history, but beyond that is there anything I need
to know? Obviously we should just make a couple of calls and see what
their policy is, but I just wanted to know if this was a common
situation or not first. TIA!

Sam

If you can't find an FBO to rent the plane for this, you may be able to find
plane owners who rent planes. It is not uncommon.

You will probably have to beat the bushes a bit more to find them , but they
are out there.


"Sam" wrote in message
om...
I posted a message awhile back about one of my relatives offering me
free flight instruction. He's a very experienced airline pilot and
has done a lot of CFI work in the past. He's still current on his CFI
rating, and the plan is to begin training in June (when I have more
money and he has more time).

Do you think there will be any problem with one of the local FBOs
renting us a plane for my training? Obviously they'll want to check
him out and see his history, but beyond that is there anything I need
to know? Obviously we should just make a couple of calls and see what
their policy is, but I just wanted to know if this was a common
situation or not first. TIA!

Sam

The problem is usually one of insurance. The FBO's insurer insists that
instruction be given only by instructors employed by the FBO. The FBO may
also object to providing an airplane for an instructor that it perceives is
competing with its own business.

If you do find a private individual who is willing to rent his plane to you
for instruction, be sure to carry your own renter's insurance. The airplane
is required to have 100 hour inspections if used for rental.

Flying clubs often welcome free-lance instructors. You and your instructor
could consider joining such a club.

Actually buying an airplane and learning to fly in it can be cheaper than
renting. I have known people who did this and who ended up selling the plane
for more than they paid for it.

owners renting out their aircraft for instruction... may not have the "open
pilot policy" that allows for student solo operations..

BT

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
The problem is usually one of insurance. The FBO's insurer insists that
instruction be given only by instructors employed by the FBO. The FBO may
also object to providing an airplane for an instructor that it perceives
is
competing with its own business.

If you do find a private individual who is willing to rent his plane to
you
for instruction, be sure to carry your own renter's insurance. The
airplane
is required to have 100 hour inspections if used for rental.

Flying clubs often welcome free-lance instructors. You and your instructor
could consider joining such a club.

Actually buying an airplane and learning to fly in it can be cheaper than
renting. I have known people who did this and who ended up selling the
plane
for more than they paid for it.

The airplane is required to have 100 hour inspections if used for
rental.

Thought we had killed this myth a long time ago.

----------------------------------------snip-----------------------------------------
FAA Letter of Interpretation

May 3, 1984

In Reply Refer To: ACE-7
Mr. Perry Rackers
Jefferson City Flying Service
PO Box 330
Jefferson City, Missouri 65101

Dear Mr. Rackers:

This is in reply to your request of May 1, 1984, that we render an
opinion regarding the applicability of the 100-hour inspections
requirement of Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations
to rental aircraft.

Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations provides that,
except as noted in Section 91.169(c), a person may not operate an
aircraft carrying any person, other than a crewmember, for hire, and
may not give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides unless, within the previous 100 hours of time in
service, the aircraft has received either an annual or a 100-hour
inspection
..
If a person merely leases or rents an aircraft to another person and
does not provide the pilot, that aircraft is not required by Section
91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations to have a 100-hour
inspection. As noted above, the 100-hour inspection is required only
when the aircraft is carrying a person for hire, or when a person is
providing flight instruction for hire, in their own aircraft.

If there are any questions, please advise us.

Sincerely,
/s/
Joseph T. Brennan
Associate Regional Counsel.

The interesting thing about that Greg, is that is defies common sense by
changing a required safety inspection period based only upon whose name is
on the title - but then it is the FAA, right?
denny

"Greg Esres" wrote in
Thought we had killed this myth a long time ago.

----------------------------------------snip----------------------------
-------------
FAA Letter of Interpretation

May 3, 1984

In Reply Refer To: ACE-7
Mr. Perry Rackers
Jefferson City Flying Service
PO Box 330
Jefferson City, Missouri 65101

Dear Mr. Rackers:

This is in reply to your request of May 1, 1984, that we render an
opinion regarding the applicability of the 100-hour inspections
requirement of Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations
to rental aircraft.

Section 91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations provides that,
except as noted in Section 91.169(c), a person may not operate an
aircraft carrying any person, other than a crewmember, for hire, and
may not give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides unless, within the previous 100 hours of time in
service, the aircraft has received either an annual or a 100-hour
inspection
.
If a person merely leases or rents an aircraft to another person and
does not provide the pilot, that aircraft is not required by Section
91.169(b) of the Federal Aviation Regulations to have a 100-hour
inspection. As noted above, the 100-hour inspection is required only
when the aircraft is carrying a person for hire, or when a person is
providing flight instruction for hire, in their own aircraft.

If there are any questions, please advise us.

Sincerely,
/s/
Joseph T. Brennan
Associate Regional Counsel.

Your friend can rent the airplane from the FBO and give you dual
instruction without any restriction. But the problem comes when you
have to fly solo or fly solo cross countries. What you might want to
do is take the majority of your instruction with your friend, and then
switch to one of the FBO instructors and have them sign off your solo.
You have to do the same for the cross countries as well. This is a
hassle, but I really don't see how an FBO will allow a stranger to
sign off another stranger to take their airplanes on solo flights. If
your friend has done a lot of CFI work in the past he must have some
ideas on how to do this or know someone in the community who could
help.




(Sam) wrote in message . com...
I posted a message awhile back about one of my relatives offering me
free flight instruction. He's a very experienced airline pilot and
has done a lot of CFI work in the past. He's still current on his CFI
rating, and the plan is to begin training in June (when I have more
money and he has more time).

Do you think there will be any problem with one of the local FBOs
renting us a plane for my training? Obviously they'll want to check
him out and see his history, but beyond that is there anything I need
to know? Obviously we should just make a couple of calls and see what
their policy is, but I just wanted to know if this was a common
situation or not first. TIA!

Sam

Old myths never die.

(Sam) wrote in message . com...
I posted a message awhile back about one of my relatives offering me
free flight instruction. He's a very experienced airline pilot and
has done a lot of CFI work in the past. He's still current on his CFI
rating, and the plan is to begin training in June (when I have more
money and he has more time).

Do you think there will be any problem with one of the local FBOs
renting us a plane for my training? Obviously they'll want to check
him out and see his history, but beyond that is there anything I need
to know? Obviously we should just make a couple of calls and see what
their policy is, but I just wanted to know if this was a common
situation or not first. TIA!

As far as I know, there are no FBOs in the U.S. that have CFI's as
employees. We are almost always "1099" not "W-2". I think this helps
divorse the liability of having employees.
Your question really varies by the FBO. There are many FBOs in
Sacramento that will not consider it unless you want to fly full time
for them. There are others that just want you to sign up as a member
of their club. In general the professional training type places are
not likely to permit this. I'm an independent CFI and know of several
places I can get planes to teach in and places that I can't. The
bottom line is, you need to call.

Also, make sure this guy is really commited to training you. Accepting
a student is a BIG responsibility and I don't believe you should take
it on unless you are willing to see the student all the way through.

-Robert, CFI