Jantar 2b opinions sought

I am a big guy and on a limited budget, the Jantar 2b is an option, big
cockpit good performance etc ,I have flown a standard Jantar when I was
doing a lot of hours in an ASW19 and found it different but good glider.
Small paddocks here mean high landing energy is an issue, at my age I would
prefer it a bit easier
My preferred list in order for old open class is Nimbus2c (for its
airbrakes, but pricey), Jantar 2B, ASW17 (very heavy though)
Things I would like to know are opinions on a 2Bs handling/flying,
maintenance issues ,parts supplies
Factory support etc
German gliders generally have 12,000 hrs lifespan, how does the Jantar 2b
compare
Gary

First question is are you sure you want an open class bird? Do you have someplace to leave it rigged? If you can't leave it rigged I would think long and hard about buying one.

A Std Cirrus or Std Jantar will fly nearly as far on a given day, land in smaller fields, and your friends will help you rig. Early 15m gliders are even better but a little more expensive.

If your heart is not set on an open glider and you are just looking because of price, don't buy one. There is a reason why the early open ships can be bought cheaply. They don't fly much because the owners get tired of rigging them, can't fly cross country the way they want because they are afraid to land out, and have to be home early to make sure there will be plenty of help to derig.

Buy the best trailer you can afford with a glider in it.

Many years ago, my first glider was a Jantar-1, the earlier 19-meter version of the Jantar 2b. I transitioned to it after training in K-13s It is strong, well-built (but not up to the standard of the German ships) and heavy.. This is not a glider you want to rig often - the field emptied quickly when I appeared with my trailer, but I soon negotiated a hangar slot! I did all my badge flights up to diamond goal in this ship.

Its performance is quite good - I flew a lot with ASW-20s and kept up with them in all but the strongest conditions - water ballast helped. In weak late-afternoon conditions I got home a couple of times when they didn't - there is no substitute for wingspan!

The fuselage is identical to the Standard Jantar, which leaves it a bit under-ruddered and prone to adverse yaw. The cockpit is big and pretty comfortable.

I would definitely only consider it if you can leave it rigged.

Mike

I am a big guy and have rigged Lak 12s and ASW17s s so I know what they are
like without the proper handling gear but my 1st job is to weld up a full
one man rig system,once you have one of those it makes a huge difference.



At 21:18 04 May 2013, Gary O'Neill wrote:
I am a big guy and on a limited budget, the Jantar 2b is an option, big
cockpit good performance etc ,I have flown a standard Jantar when I was
doing a lot of hours in an ASW19 and found it different but good glider.
Small paddocks here mean high landing energy is an issue, at my age I
would
prefer it a bit easier
My preferred list in order for old open class is Nimbus2c (for its
airbrakes, but pricey), Jantar 2B, ASW17 (very heavy though)
Things I would like to know are opinions on a 2Bs handling/flying,
maintenance issues ,parts supplies
Factory support etc
German gliders generally have 12,000 hrs lifespan, how does the Jantar 2b
compare
Gary

I am a big guy and have rigged Lak 12s and ASW17s s so I know what they are
like without the proper handling gear but my 1st job is to weld up a full
one man rig system,once you have one of those it makes a huge difference.



At 21:18 04 May 2013, Gary O'Neill wrote:
I am a big guy and on a limited budget, the Jantar 2b is an option, big
cockpit good performance etc ,I have flown a standard Jantar when I was
doing a lot of hours in an ASW19 and found it different but good glider.
Small paddocks here mean high landing energy is an issue, at my age I
would
prefer it a bit easier
My preferred list in order for old open class is Nimbus2c (for its
airbrakes, but pricey), Jantar 2B, ASW17 (very heavy though)
Things I would like to know are opinions on a 2Bs handling/flying,
maintenance issues ,parts supplies
Factory support etc
German gliders generally have 12,000 hrs lifespan, how does the Jantar 2b
compare
Gary

On Saturday, May 4, 2013 3:18:56 PM UTC-6, Gary O'Neill wrote:
I am a big guy and on a limited budget, the Jantar 2b is an option, big

cockpit good performance etc ,I have flown a standard Jantar when I was

doing a lot of hours in an ASW19 and found it different but good glider.

Small paddocks here mean high landing energy is an issue, at my age I would

prefer it a bit easier

My preferred list in order for old open class is Nimbus2c (for its

airbrakes, but pricey), Jantar 2B, ASW17 (very heavy though)

Things I would like to know are opinions on a 2Bs handling/flying,

maintenance issues ,parts supplies

Factory support etc

German gliders generally have 12,000 hrs lifespan, how does the Jantar 2b

compare

Gary

Never flown one, but I owned a share in a Jantar Std 2 and liked it's performance, really an honest 40/1 glider. That said, my former BGA senior inspector thought the Jantar wing hinges wore out much more quickly than German builds. That said, big wings will bring you home more often. Rigging aids are part of the equation if you own one of these big paneled birds.

The only drawback to a 2B that I'm told is that it's not fitted for ground launch. Sorry, but I need to be able to auto tow or winch.

Re-sale is something of a consideration.

IIRC, original life of a Jantar Std was 1500 hours. No idea of current thinking.

Frank Whiteley

Originally Posted by Gary O'Neill[_2_]

I am a big guy and on a limited budget, the Jantar 2b is an option, big
cockpit good performance etc ,I have flown a standard Jantar when I was
doing a lot of hours in an ASW19 and found it different but good glider.
Small paddocks here mean high landing energy is an issue, at my age I would
prefer it a bit easier
My preferred list in order for old open class is Nimbus2c (for its
airbrakes, but pricey), Jantar 2B, ASW17 (very heavy though)
Things I would like to know are opinions on a 2Bs handling/flying,
maintenance issues ,parts supplies
Factory support etc
German gliders generally have 12,000 hrs lifespan, how does the Jantar 2b
compare
Gary

If you're serious about a big ship you could try making Dennis Cook an offer for KO

Glad I was on Oxygen... Nearly died laughing as a 2b I was following tried to enter a thermal. Full aileron, full rudder, nothing happened until hitting the sink on the other side, then it started the turn in sink. The flap hinge in the 2b is the upper surface flexing - which you can imagine takes some force - so there's no aileron modulation of the flaps. I found pushing the stick forward helps get some aileron and rudder, not quite how you'd normally enter a thermal.
Doubt you'd ever dare "rock polishing" in a Jantar 2b, the Nimbus and 17 can be better trusted in close quarters.
The similar vintage Nimbus 2 (especially 2C) is easier to fly. For earlier ones with a "flying tail", get your CG forward until well familiar. ASW17 is easier still, handles like a 20 in flight.
Nimbus 2s are the only one in your list which include a canopy hinge from the factory, the other canopies come right off.
I prefer rigging the other two. But as you said, a one-man rigger will change things. With a reasonable trailer and rigging aids, older open class gliders can be rigged on a daily basis. Jim Madsen, Joe Gera and Malcolm Kyle all used to rig their Jantar 2bs by themselves from Minden Fab trailers with the Stowers one-man rigging setup.
Joe once flew 1000k, had a barograph failure, and did 1000k again the next day.
But my 1983 Soaring Magazine Sailplane Directory used to fall open to the ASW17 page, if that tells you what I'd get - and did.
Jim

Gary, you don't say how big you are.
I'm 6'3" and 240 lbs, so I fill most cockpits... before I even put on a parachute.
I fly a Slingsby Kestrel 19-metre, which has a big cockpit. The ship weighs 730 lbs and the wing panels are 205 lbs each. I use a one-man rigger and get ready to fly in 30-40 minutes without help.
I help a club-mate rig his ASW-17 in the Spring; it's quite a beast on the ground but flies beautifully. I wouldn't fit in it and it's W&B says I'm much too heavy.

-John

I am on a diet to get back to flying weight and 6'ft one"but
very broad and the length tailbone to top of the head makes it impossible
for me to fly certain models ,Lak12 for example.
I owned a Kestrel 17 for years ,tight but ok most ASW ships are fine ,ASW17
has a drag chute deploy left side low which digs into my leg in normal
flight position so mods would required. Of the ships I have tried the ASW17
is the most comfortable LS3,ventus B. Nimbus2 and so on.
My wife has her hands on the budget and bang for buck
old open class fits , you just have to more experienced because they are
not for beginners.
J 2B s are not here to try out so I am trying to get info on them.


At 12:11 07 May 2013, C-FFKQ 42 wrote:
Gary, you don't say how big you are.
I'm 6'3" and 240 lbs, so I fill most cockpits... before I even put on a
parachute.
I fly a Slingsby Kestrel 19-metre, which has a big cockpit. The ship
weighs 730 lbs and the wing panels are 205 lbs each. I use a one-man
rigger and get ready to fly in 30-40 minutes without help.
I help a club-mate rig his ASW-17 in the Spring; it's quite a beast on
the
ground but flies beautifully. I wouldn't fit in it and it's W&B says I'm
much too heavy.

-John