What are your thoughts on.....

Hello,
As a senior in high school, i was able to get my private pilot's
license on dec 31, 2003. i love flying(what pilot doesn't, right?)
but i'm looking for a cheaper way to build hours then renting. i was
just playing with an idea, and i wanted your responses. Would an
airplane owner ever offer to share operating expenses for payment to
share a plane? i know that i would have to be put on an insurance
plan, and i of course would pay for over half of the owners insurance
payement, plus whatever kind of costs for annuals and other
inspections. i know this is almost like co-ownership, but i don't
have the resources to be buying a plane. I'm not trying to ask for
something for nothing, as i've said, i'll pay for operating and
insurance costs, as agreed with an owner.

Well, how would you respond to this kind of proposal? let me know!

Thanks in advance,
Benjamin

If you want to email me....
#b#a#s#o#g#@#r#r#c#n#e#t#.#o#r#g#

I tried to email you but your email system rejected my address:

Recipient address:
Reason: Server rejected MAIL FROM address.
Diagnostic code: smtp;550 5.0.0 porn spamming network
Remote system: dns;mail.rrcnet.org
(TCP|167.206.5.72|57474|209.105.74.131|25) (rrc2.rrcnet.org ESMTP Hello from
rrcnet; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:51:13 -0600)


My domain is optonline.net, which is a major cable internet ISP. If you
block optonline.net then you stop email from millions of legitimate
addresses.

Good luck.


"Ben" wrote in message
om...
Hello,
As a senior in high school, i was able to get my private pilot's
license on dec 31, 2003. i love flying(what pilot doesn't, right?)
but i'm looking for a cheaper way to build hours then renting. i was
just playing with an idea, and i wanted your responses. Would an
airplane owner ever offer to share operating expenses for payment to
share a plane? i know that i would have to be put on an insurance
plan, and i of course would pay for over half of the owners insurance
payement, plus whatever kind of costs for annuals and other
inspections. i know this is almost like co-ownership, but i don't
have the resources to be buying a plane. I'm not trying to ask for
something for nothing, as i've said, i'll pay for operating and
insurance costs, as agreed with an owner.

Well, how would you respond to this kind of proposal? let me know!

Thanks in advance,
Benjamin

If you want to email me....
#b#a#s#o#g#@#r#r#c#n#e#t#.#o#r#g#

My domain is optonline.net, which is a major cable internet ISP. If you
block optonline.net then you stop email from millions of legitimate
addresses.

Otherwise known as SPAM. The only people I want to hear from in my inbox are
my friends, family and those I have given permission to email me. I am not
trying to be arrogant, but I HATE unsolicited email with a passion.

Richard

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...
I tried to email you but your email system rejected my address:

Recipient address:
Reason: Server rejected MAIL FROM address.
Diagnostic code: smtp;550 5.0.0 porn spamming network
Remote system: dns;mail.rrcnet.org
(TCP|167.206.5.72|57474|209.105.74.131|25) (rrc2.rrcnet.org ESMTP Hello
from
rrcnet; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:51:13 -0600)


Good luck.


"Ben" wrote in message
om...
Hello,
As a senior in high school, i was able to get my private pilot's
license on dec 31, 2003. i love flying(what pilot doesn't, right?)
but i'm looking for a cheaper way to build hours then renting. i was
just playing with an idea, and i wanted your responses. Would an
airplane owner ever offer to share operating expenses for payment to
share a plane? i know that i would have to be put on an insurance
plan, and i of course would pay for over half of the owners insurance
payement, plus whatever kind of costs for annuals and other
inspections. i know this is almost like co-ownership, but i don't
have the resources to be buying a plane. I'm not trying to ask for
something for nothing, as i've said, i'll pay for operating and
insurance costs, as agreed with an owner.

Well, how would you respond to this kind of proposal? let me know!

Thanks in advance,
Benjamin

If you want to email me....
#b#a#s#o#g#@#r#r#c#n#e#t#.#o#r#g#

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...
[...]
My domain is optonline.net, which is a major cable internet ISP. If you
block optonline.net then you stop email from millions of legitimate
addresses.

Why you replied by email, I don't know. However, as far as the blocked
domain goes, it's likely he has nothing to do with that.

Probably his ISP is using one of those obnoxious black-hole lists that
automatically detects spam and adds IP ranges from which the spam originated
to its database. Of course, since a third of all spam these days is being
sent from compromised but otherwise legitimate users, this sort of idiotic
solution results in innocent bystanders getting their email blocked.

My ISP provides this kind of "service", and once I found out what was going
on, I told them to disable it for my email. I don't get any more spam than
I used to, and I don't have friends and family complaining that they can't
send me email anymore.

Pete

"Soon_To_Fly" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
My domain is optonline.net, which is a major cable internet ISP. If you
block optonline.net then you stop email from millions of legitimate
addresses.

Otherwise known as SPAM. The only people I want to hear from in my inbox
are
my friends, family and those I have given permission to email me. I am not
trying to be arrogant, but I HATE unsolicited email with a passion.

I don't think he means "you stop millions of legitimate pieces of email".
He just means there are millions of legitimate addresses, a handful of whom
might actually send you email. For example, if one of your friends or
family or those you have given permission to email you are using
optonline.net, they would not be able to send you email.

I hate spam as much as they next guy, but seems like you're flying off the
handle a bit here...

"Ben" wrote in message
om...
Well, how would you respond to this kind of proposal? let me know!

It depends. But sure, if structured right, as an airplane owner I would
consider something like that.

Without a capital investment, you would expect less than full partnership
benefits, while being expected to pay full rate for your fair share of
operating expenses. That means that you'd pay the pro-rata share of fixed
costs, plus all hourly costs incurred by you. At the same time, you would
not have priority for scheduling, you would have no say in how maintenance
on the airplane was done, nor on how to manage the fixed costs, that sort of
thing.

Also keep in mind that I don't know what the legality of something like this
would be. As an owner, I wouldn't make such an offer to just anyone. It'd
have to be someone I know well and whom I'd otherwise consider for
partnership in the airplane. I also wouldn't go out of my way to mention
the arrangement to the FAA. Some inspector might get the mind to call such
an arrangement a lease, even though IMHO it's clearly a partnership of
sorts.

If you or the owner are really worried about the legality, you could even
draw up some sort of partnership papers that outline your rights (or lack
thereof) as a partner, and your investment (or lack therof).

Pete

In article ,
Peter Duniho wrote:

Probably his ISP is using one of those obnoxious black-hole lists that
automatically detects spam and adds IP ranges from which the spam originated
to its database.

The problem is that some people get so much spam that if they didn't
take drastic filtering measures they wouldn't get your email anyway --
they wouldn't have time to sift through the spam looking for it.

Of course, since a third of all spam these days is being
sent from compromised but otherwise legitimate users, this sort of idiotic
solution results in innocent bystanders getting their email blocked.

Not really. 'Compromised' broadband users infected with viruses that
turn them into spam zombies should still be sending their legitimate
email through their ISP's server, which will not be on the DUL-style
lists I assume you are refering to. There is plenty of collateral
damage from IP blocking, but the cause of those blocks is usually ISP
supported spam.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:RSR5c.27524$JL2.318706@attbi_s03...
The problem is that some people get so much spam that if they didn't
take drastic filtering measures they wouldn't get your email anyway --
they wouldn't have time to sift through the spam looking for it.

Did you read my post? I had my ISP *** DISABLE *** the black-hole list
functionality for my email account, and it produced NO CHANGE in the amount
of spam I receive.

Not only was it blocking legitimate email, it turned out it did not appear
to be blocking any spam that SpamAssassin (which my ISP also runs) wasn't
already catching.

Obviously it is possible to filter out spam without resorting to such
drastic measures.

Not really. 'Compromised' broadband users infected with viruses that
turn them into spam zombies should still be sending their legitimate
email through their ISP's server, which will not be on the DUL-style
lists I assume you are refering to.

You have no clue about what you're talking about. The reason that I had my
ISP disable the black-hole list was that domains such as aol.com,
comcast.com, and cox.net were being blocked. These are all "respectable"
ISPs who take a no-tolerance stance toward their users sending spam.

The same tool, by the way, was blocking another friend's email because he
was running his own email server behind a dynamic IP address. Yet another
inappropriately blocked, perfectly legitimate source of email.

Your claim that those sources of email "will not be on the DUL-style lists"
is just plain wrong.

There is plenty of collateral
damage from IP blocking, but the cause of those blocks is usually ISP
supported spam.

Baloney. I receive practically no email from anyone using an ISP that
supports spam. I doubt I know ANYONE who uses an ISP that supports spam.
And yet email sent to me was getting blocked on a regular basis, because
those spam-intolerant ISPs that my friends and family do use were still
getting blocked.

Do you really believe that Ben or his ISP at rrcnet.org have blocked the
optonline.net domain as a spamming network legitimately?

Pete

In article ,
Peter Duniho wrote:

You have no clue about what you're talking about. [...]

I don't know why you've decided to elevate this straight to "flamewar".
I agree that the fallout from spam (false positives especially) is
reaching unacceptable levels. Don't be so quick to condemn those who
have been burned by insufficient filtering who have resorted to stronger
measures. Just because you don't need them (on the scale of your own
personal inbox) doesn't mean they're useless.

There is plenty of collateral
damage from IP blocking, but the cause of those blocks is usually ISP
supported spam.

Baloney. I receive practically no email from anyone using an ISP that
supports spam.

How would you even know? And besides, I said "collateral damage". I'm
including the case where small ISPs have IP blocks that are near known
spammers and overzealous blackhole list admins hit them too.

Do you really believe that Ben or his ISP at rrcnet.org have blocked the
optonline.net domain as a spamming network legitimately?

That's a loaded question, you just spent the rest of your message ranting
about how the blocks are never legitimate. The server in question is
listed on 4 out of 31 blackhole lists at the moment. The policies of
at least a few of those require that actual spam come from the actual
server to one of their traps. I wouldn't use them at blacklists because
I find their policies too extreme. But then again I only process tens of
thousands of junk email messages a day, probably a few orders of magnitude
below a medium sized ISP.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

On 16 Mar 2004 17:12:58 -0800, (Ben) wrote:

Hello,
As a senior in high school, i was able to get my private pilot's
license on dec 31, 2003. i love flying(what pilot doesn't, right?)
but i'm looking for a cheaper way to build hours then renting. i was
just playing with an idea, and i wanted your responses. Would an
airplane owner ever offer to share operating expenses for payment to
share a plane? i know that i would have to be put on an insurance
plan, and i of course would pay for over half of the owners insurance
payement, plus whatever kind of costs for annuals and other
inspections. i know this is almost like co-ownership, but i don't
have the resources to be buying a plane. I'm not trying to ask for
something for nothing, as i've said, i'll pay for operating and
insurance costs, as agreed with an owner.

Go to the airport. Hang out. Help people. Make friends. There are
a lot of planes that sit idle that could use the 'exercise'. The
difficult part will be getting someone to trust you enough to accept
the risk of letting someone else fly their plane.

Where are you based?

-Nathan