NTSB

Hi everyone

Last year, I was doing flight training in the US, and was involved in an
accident where the helicopter contacted the floor during a steep turn in
an air taxi manouver.

The instructor was new, 300 hours total time. He was at the controls at
the time of the accident, and the flight was a brief tour of the local
sights as he was new to the area. I had just passed my PPL and was on my
way to commercial, I had 120+ hours total time, 80+ hours PIC, at the
time of the accident.

During the turns, we were starting at around 50ft AGL, and were losing
altitude to around 5ft AGL coming out of the turn.

On the last turn (to the right), the right skid made contact with the
floor, and a rollover ensued, destroying the helicopter.

We were interviewed bby the FAA, and gave an account of the above
events. The instructor wasw required to take a checkride again, and has
moved on to another school (I believe - he left anyway).

However, the NSTB report for the accident states quite clearly that *I*
("the student pilot") was the one who initiated the manouver. It quite
clearly wasn't - the instructor was in control and I was following on
the dual controls.

The NTSB aren't very interested in changing this to the truth, saying
"it won't change anything".

How can I get them to listen?

Whether or not it will make a difference, I would like the TRUTH to be
on there. Believe me - I'd be doing the same if I had made the mistake
and the instructor was blamed.

Colin

NTSB reports, where the FAA were the investigators, are notorious for
their inaccuracies. The NTSB change the original facts quite often. The
FAA inspectors are just as frustrated as you are when they point out
the incorrect facts and the NTSB refuses to correct them.
This is probably why NTSB reports cannot be used in trials.

EDR wrote:
NTSB reports, where the FAA were the investigators, are notorious for
their inaccuracies. The NTSB change the original facts quite often. The
FAA inspectors are just as frustrated as you are when they point out
the incorrect facts and the NTSB refuses to correct them.
This is probably why NTSB reports cannot be used in trials.

Is it likely to affect my career at all?

I am a few hours away from my commercial checkride, and then I want to
do the instructor rating... Has this wrecked my career before I finished
my training?

Colin

"Colin Taylor" wrote in message
...
[...]
I am a few hours away from my commercial checkride, and then I want to
do the instructor rating... Has this wrecked my career before I finished
my training?

Seems to me that the FAA enforcement action(s), if any, is what would affect
your career. Even if you did cause the accident, I doubt that would have
wrecked your career, and since the FAA held your instructor to blame, I
don't see why it'd have any significant effect at all.

Is it likely to affect my career at all?

Nope....I have an accident on my record..two actually. One was my fault and one
was NOT my fault. I'm flying for a living.
As for the NTSB, they could care less about the facts.
On my 2nd accident (the one that was my fault), they decided not to use pretty
much anything that was in my report to them and the FAA's report...hell, there
was even video and they still got it wrong. Oh well.

But, when you interview for a job in flying, just be honest about it and things
fall into place.


-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

"Colin Taylor" wrote in message
...
EDR wrote:
NTSB reports, where the FAA were the investigators, are notorious for
their inaccuracies. The NTSB change the original facts quite often. The
FAA inspectors are just as frustrated as you are when they point out
the incorrect facts and the NTSB refuses to correct them.
This is probably why NTSB reports cannot be used in trials.

Is it likely to affect my career at all?

No and when you are asked if you ever had an accident the answer is no. The
FAA considered the instructor to be PIC, that's why he had to have another
checkride.

Newps wrote:
"Colin Taylor" wrote in message
...

EDR wrote:

NTSB reports, where the FAA were the investigators, are notorious for
their inaccuracies. The NTSB change the original facts quite often. The
FAA inspectors are just as frustrated as you are when they point out
the incorrect facts and the NTSB refuses to correct them.
This is probably why NTSB reports cannot be used in trials.

Is it likely to affect my career at all?


No and when you are asked if you ever had an accident the answer is no. The
FAA considered the instructor to be PIC, that's why he had to have another
checkride.



If I was asked this question, I would say I was *in* an accident, but
not the primary input at the controls at the time.
Technically, I was PIC (for the logbook) cos I held a PPL at the time,
although I was undergoing further instruction in that flight.

I was worried that given enough information (such as location/tail
number) a future employer might do some investigation and find the NTSB
report, but the truth is exactly the opposite of the NTSB report. I'm
worried that the employer might think I am a compulsive liar into the deal?

For those of you that are interested, here's the heli:
http://nigni.com/cellar/heli.jpg
Both myself and the instructor walked away from this, and neither of us
needed hospital treatment.

Colin

Colin Taylor wrote:

If I was asked this question, I would say I was *in* an accident, but
not the primary input at the controls at the time.
Technically, I was PIC (for the logbook) cos I held a PPL at the time,
although I was undergoing further instruction in that flight.


If you held a PPL at the time I believe you and the instructor can
both log PIC time during instruction, unless you are receiving instruction
for an aircraft category/class/type that you have not yet been signed
off for, then only the instructor is the PIC and can log it.

As far as who is the REAL PIC in the event of an accident, I believe
the FAA places a greater burden on the instructor since HE has been
trained and licensed to insure the training is safe and risks are minimized.

its not the NTSB reports that count.. it's what is in your pilot folder at
FAA OKC that matters.. if they did not require you to retake a ride with the
FAA and sent you no letters to that effect.. or findings.. then it is a moot
point.. keep a copy of all FAA correspondence

press on.. fly safe.. and learn from it

BT

"Colin Taylor" wrote in message
...
EDR wrote:
NTSB reports, where the FAA were the investigators, are notorious for
their inaccuracies. The NTSB change the original facts quite often. The
FAA inspectors are just as frustrated as you are when they point out
the incorrect facts and the NTSB refuses to correct them.
This is probably why NTSB reports cannot be used in trials.

Is it likely to affect my career at all?

I am a few hours away from my commercial checkride, and then I want to
do the instructor rating... Has this wrecked my career before I finished
my training?

Colin

"EDR" wrote in message
...

NTSB reports, where the FAA were the investigators, are notorious for
their inaccuracies. The NTSB change the original facts quite often. The
FAA inspectors are just as frustrated as you are when they point out
the incorrect facts and the NTSB refuses to correct them.
This is probably why NTSB reports cannot be used in trials.

I'd assume NTSB reports would be inadmissible regardless of their
reliability, because they're hearsay, not evidence.

--Gary